教育王國
標題: IS (ie ESF) or local DSS (ie DBSPD/ St. Paul's Co-ed) [打印本頁]
作者: Adrimom 時間: 09-3-30 16:22 標題: IS (ie ESF) or local DSS (ie DBSPD/ St. Paul's Co-ed)
Dear all,
Hi all, I saw some of the threads discussed here talking about the differences between international schools and typical local school (i.e. better English in IS, duck feed teaching approach in local schools etc). I wish to draw a more 'apple to apple' comparison here - IS vs local direct subsidies schools, as they are closer in terms of school fee, and teaching approach (I suppose most directly subsidies schools nowadays no longer use the very 'duck feed' teaching approach and they also try to provide more resources and exposure to students). How would you compare these two streams? Ideally speaking, if your kid is accepted by all the above schools, which one would you choose?
The reason why I'm asking is, my son got accepted by a popular local kindergarten and he will be in K1 in Sept. I am still considering which stream to put him to for primary. Some people told me to try local first, coz if you are not happy with local, you can always switch to international, but definitely not vise versa. How true is that? I heard that ESF schools are also highly competitive. How high a chance can one get into ESF primary if he studies in local kindy? Can anyone shed some light?
Thanks so much!
作者: oooray 時間: 09-3-30 16:45
[quote]原帖由 Adrimom 於 09-3-30 16:22 發表 
"(I suppose most directly subsidies schools nowadays no longer use thevery 'duck feed' teaching approach and they also try to provide moreresources and exposure to students)".
I don't agree with this point...as long as the students in those schools are attending local public exam., the school will be training them in more or less the similar way to achieve better exam. result ; then have "higher ranking" amongst schools and then attract more "customers"
作者: jjd 時間: 09-3-30 18:18
Local DSS is nowhere close to IS as regards the teaching approach. DBSPD and St. Pauls' Co-ed kids are still being duck fed and are still exposed to the same kind of pressure from exams, tests and dictation as early as in primary 1.
Yes, they say they "encourage" reading but the reality is, the kids just don't have spare time to read. If they finish their homework and perhaps even finish studying for dictations, they need to use their very precious time to practise musical instruments or being coached in various sporting activities so as to achieve awards for the school. Parents also like to compare the number of awards their children obtain through different competitions/speech festivals/music festivals of the like. Parents of DSS (famous ones) and IS are totally different species!
[ 本帖最後由 jjd 於 09-3-30 18:25 編輯 ]
作者: leegbd 時間: 09-3-30 22:06
I reckon that IS and local DSS are running totally different streams and it is hard and unfair to compare together. Even some DSS schools try not to be very "duck feed", it is difficult in somehow as competition between 1st rank schools are very high.
I believe every parent has their own reasons in deciding to choose a IS or DSS. These years, many IS are very competitive to get in, they are not a second backup when you find you are not happy with a local school.
作者: vvnpo 時間: 09-3-30 22:54
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作者: Adrimom 時間: 09-3-31 10:20
So does that mean one has to stick with local/ IS once the decision is made as it's really hard to switch to a different stream later on? It's a really tough decision to make though 
作者: popolung 時間: 09-3-31 12:55
原帖由 Adrimom 於 09-3-31 10:20 發表
So does that mean one has to stick with local/ IS once the decision is made as it's really hard to switch to a different stream later on? It's a really tough decision to make though
Yes, because
1. To switch your kid need to have either native Chinese or Native English, which is not easy to achiveve
2. The one who suffer will be your kid. Don't think your kid is a guinea pig.....
作者: almom 時間: 09-3-31 13:03
原帖由 Adrimom 於 09-3-31 10:20 發表
So does that mean one has to stick with local/ IS once the decision is made as it's really hard to switch to a different stream later on? It's a really tough decision to make though
Not exactly tough.
There must be qualities you expect from a school that you would never want to compromise.
Make a list of what you expect from a school.
Then arrange them in your order of preference.
Qualities may be, say, fees of the school, distance of travelling from home, national background, religion, language of instructions, curriculum, etc.....
Then search and shortlist a few schools (local or international) and compare them to your list.
There are probably no schools that can fulfil all your needs. But there must be one that is closest to what you want.
Then go for it and forget about whether it is "classified" local or international.
Make sense?
作者: Adrimom 時間: 09-3-31 14:19
Makes a lot of sense...
My wish list: I wish my son to achieve native level of English, without compromising his knowledge in Chinese (written/ spoken). I want him study in a happy, flexible and not-too-stressful environment, but with good discipline. As for curriculum, I haven't really done a lot of research yet as my son hasn't even started kindergarten...would welcome some more advice on this. School fee is of course an issue. We can at most afford DSS school fees or ESF, but not IS like GSIS or alike. So it's basically DSS or ESF I have in mind for now.
Hubby doesn't feel very comfortable if son turns into a guai jai and talks only English to us. To me this isn't too much of a concern though.
I didn't really start considering IS until quite recently, otherwise I would have also applied ESF kindy instead of just local kindy. Anyone could give me some advice on what options I can consider?
作者: Mighty 時間: 09-3-31 15:07
My input is:
(1) your son will never turn into gweizai just because he is studying in IS. Dont forget here is Hong Kong and the culture is still chinese. Even if you want him to turn into a gweizai, no way hosay.
(2) I think 90% of the IS students go to Chinese classes after school, be it PTH or Cantonese. So that will compensate on the chinese side.
(3) One of my friends, husband : local Hong Kong (educated overseas), wife : PTH native speaker. Their son uses English and PTH respectively with them and his level is native at both languages.
If money is not an issue, I am sure students going IS are far more happier than those in local schools.
作者: Adrimom 時間: 09-3-31 15:41
So since my son is accepted by a local kindergarten, how high a chance will he be accepted by an international school for primary? (we speak to him in Cantonese and English at home. He understands both but he's definitely better in Cantonese when expressing himself and all that) Anyone got similar experience? Or do I really need to put him in a local for the morning and an int'l for the afternoon? But that is way too tough for him at this age.
I saw some members discussing about Renaissance College. Is it supposed to be more balance btwn Eng and Chi lanaguage exposure? How is it different from other ESF schools? I am totally new to IS so would be happy if someone can give me more ideas. Thanks!
作者: oooray 時間: 09-3-31 16:26
原帖由 Adrimom 於 09-3-31 15:41 發表
So since my son is accepted by a local kindergarten, how high a chance will he be accepted by an international school for primary? (we speak to him in Cantonese and English at home. He understands bo ...
i guess you go through more threads in this forum. There are lots of good/bad; subjective/objective comments.
Then u can specify your questions and ask/discuss again. I am sure that parents here are very helpful
作者: Adrimom 時間: 09-3-31 17:00
Thanks oooray ;) I'm trying to go through more threads right now. Information overload 
I'm digesting bit by bit...
作者: popolung 時間: 09-3-31 17:24
I see some interesting points here. Some parents will like their kids to be in ESF Primary, but not for ESF kinders (except you are too far away) or even don't want to be in IS kinder until primary. I can't read your mind and don't know your theory behind. But as of what we face in K2 now, if you are not in ESF Kinders (especially you are Cat 2) and you want your kids to be in ESF primary schools, take your own risk and good luck.
ESF Kinder is not the best IS kinder in town, but if you want to be in ESF Primary, please read the game manual carefully. I went via most of the ESF website, including the kinder and primary one. There are many hints in these website, just you need to dig it out and try to follow.
作者: X-Mum 時間: 09-3-31 22:21
yes, popolung is right...
you want to have native english level while you do not want to give up chinese. how can you do that... kid is having 'capacity', no matter how clever gifted child, language is something not just to learn but to use. the less you use, the poor is the level. so you want native level english, then you son will be 'banana', only yellow skin with white mind... some white man can speak good chinese as only 2nd lauguage, but do you want chinese to be your son's 2nd lauguage... in l.a., there are lots of 'banana'. if you do not mind that should be okay. i think there is not pin with 2 sharp ends. you should take your side shortly. IS is no 2nd choice anymore. it getting more and more competitive, and not really less than the 1st level local schools.
作者: almom 時間: 09-4-1 12:14
I saw some members discussing about Renaissance College. Is it supposed to be more balance btwn Eng and Chi lanaguage exposure?
Let me ask you one question. What do you expect from your child regarding Chinese?
There are Chinese classes at RC but what I feel is that Chinese at RC is still merely a second language. And because of the background of the students, it is really hard for the school to move forward with their Chinese program.
RC has a very mixed culture. I do not want to argue further with those who insist that RC have mainly local Chinese students. But this is my second year with RC and what I see is that RC indeed have mainly non-local students. When I said non-local, I meant (1) non-Chinese students (eg. western kids, and asian kids from japan or korea, etc) and (2) non-Chinese speaking ethnic Chinese kids (like my children).
If we are talking about the fact that more than half of the students in each class are with such background, it would be very hard if not impossible for the school to think of ways to push the Chinese standard to a higher level. My kids are already the better ones, bearing in mind that their Chinese is only non-native level. There are so many other kids do not write or even speak any Chinese at all, and they seem to be in the beginner class forever.
We have the so-called more advanced classes, and they are actually using local text book. But what I heard is that what they teach is very shallow. Children are expected to know the meaning of the words and how to write the words. But that's mostly it. They do not exactly go far into literacy and language skills.
The way I see is that the school did have the intention to build RC into a school with stronger Chinese. However, because of the limitation in time and resources, and the mixture of students (ie, there are just too many students with Chinese as a second language), it is quite impossible for RC to develop into the school with stronger Chinese than we have now.
Having said that, I do not believe this would be a big problem because seldom do we really need really high level of Chinese skills in real daily life.
Also, if you are a local Chinese family, then I am sure your kid's Chinese should be better than my kids. But of course, I know that some parents are expecting Chinese comparable or nearly comparable to local schools. I remember one parent even said that she expected her kid to write something as good as an average columnist in a Chinese newspaper. Then I suggest that they do not choose RC. RC's Chinese program would never be able to be that strong.
However, if you expect your kid to be able to write simple stories, to be able to read Chinese newspaper headlines, etc, then I believe many RC secondary kids can do that. In fact, my kids are now able to pick up bits from Apple Daily and have no huge problem with ordering food at a Chinese restaurant. I also know that quite some western kids in the RC secondary are able to speak, read and write a lot of Chinese.
So it comes back to the same question. What do you expect from your child?
[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-4-1 12:51 編輯 ]
作者: Adrimom 時間: 09-4-1 14:30
Thanks Almon for your information about RC. You have raised the right question. I need to ask myself what I expect my child to achieve from school. This is a question I have been asking myself over and over, and honestly I still haven't got a definite answer. That's why I want to get more viewpoints from different parents, esp from those who have kids studying in international schools. Hubby and I had no experience studying in IS, but both of us came from the so-called elite local schools in town. We think it's ok if our son follow our footsteps, but we also want to understand more about some other options we can have/ afford to have. Totally agree with all the above postings regarding the language focus. I know we can't have both... it's still a huge dilemma.
作者: popolung 時間: 09-4-5 07:54
原帖由 Adrimom 於 09-4-1 14:30 發表
Thanks Almon for your information about RC. You have raised the right question. I need to ask myself what I expect my child to achieve from school. This is a question I have been asking myself over ...
Try take this approach, since both parents are from local elite school, so you knows what's going on there. Prepared to spend effort with your kids in the next 10+ years. You will be rewarded. Competition is keen though.
If you want your kid and the family to live happily in the next 10+ years, take IS.
I guess in good local school kid can speak good english, but in IS kid are speaking native Eng.
While in IS, prepared to help your kid by yourselves in Chinese. I guess if you are Chinese parents it should be much easier (I didn't mean good chinese is easy) for you to teach Chinese for use in daily life. If not enough then take you kid to have private tutor for this. But at least there is no pressure if your kid can't achieve certain standard at certain time limit. Most impotantly is to create something that he likes to study.
Hope this help.
作者: kcpapa 時間: 09-4-5 18:31
Pls kindly try to visit the website of IB. Then we will know the trend of lauguage. This is just my prediction... no proof. Do not take this too serious as I see some parents are quite too serious lately. Calm down and BK is just a place for parent 'blowing water', you know just water. If you feel good, take it, if not sing-a-song.
From the program, students are required to have at least 2 languages in higher level. If English is the 1st language, may be Chinese or French will be the 2nd language. In the case of Hong Kong, I do believe most of the students - not only Local (including Banana Chinese) and most of the Asian would take Chinese rather than French.
So no matter RC (PIC) or ESF school, they should have a very serious program to filful the standard of IB in the 2nd language. In the past, ESF is running under GCSE syllabus, so Chinese is not important at all. RC is having better program in Chinese as they are have to pass the IB standard, so they should have a better Chinese level.
Now, ESF schools are going to IB, after the last class of IGCSE students leave the school, all ESF will be IB school (if wrong, pls let me know, I am not sure if South Island school and KGV will also go IB). So the level of Chinese should be re-design and more emphasis should be put.
So I think no matter PIC or ESF, the Chinese level will be improved. While our local elite school in fact is a Chinese based school. They are having lesson in English, but English still is not the 1st language of the student, no matter how high is the level. If we concentrate only on Language, and we are giving English a piority, then still IS would be our choice.
作者: almom 時間: 09-4-5 22:14
原帖由 kcpapa 於 09-4-5 18:31 發表
Pls kindly try to visit the website of IB. Then we will know the trend of lauguage. This is just my prediction... no proof. Do not take this too serious as I see some parents are quite too serious lately. Calm down and BK is just a place for parent 'blowing water', you know just water. If you feel good, take it, if not sing-a-song.
You are absolutely right.
But there are things that I insist I take it seriously, especially about factual information.
Agree?
So no matter RC (PIC) or ESF school, they should have a very serious program to filful the standard of IB in the 2nd language.....
Now, ESF schools are going to IB, after the last class of IGCSE students leave the school, all ESF will be IB school (if wrong, pls let me know, I am not sure if South Island school and KGV will also go IB). So the level of Chinese should be re-design and more emphasis should be put.
So I think no matter PIC or ESF, the Chinese level will be improved.
You have described the most ideal situation.
All students are required to have 2 languages for IBD.
One has to be a language A1, which is the first language. All ESF and RC students are taking English A1 as first language.
Then there is a second language. It can either be A1, A2, B or ab initio.
A1 and A2 are native level. So if we are talking about Chinese A1 and A2, that would be hard. How hard? Well, just imagine what they are doing for English language at ESF. Chinese A1 and A2 are exactly the "Chinese version". We are talking about a lot of discussions and critics about literature, history, political issues, etc, all in Chinese language.
Language B is, on the other hand, merely second language level. They teach language B at much narrower and much shallower level. They are merely language itself.
Needless to say, ab initio is even more "elementary". I know that this is in fact for those who have learnt a language for just a few years.
My understanding is that very few international school students would be able to take Chinese A. Even with Yiu Chung and CIS, not many of them would opt to take Chinese A.
For RC, we have Chinese classes since P1. Technically speaking, all students that join at P1 should be able to have at least Chinese B when they reach IBD. However, there are also different levels chinese classes available for all year levels. What I see is that, because of the choices (or options) of different levels, the general atmosphere of Chinese learning is not as serious as other subjects. The Chinese department is doing a good job. Parents are probably also keen. But students do not seem to be taking chinese classes as seriously as other classes.
I cannot really have enough experience yet with language B to discuss further how "shallow" is language B. But I can say that it is far shallower than I have expected.
So this "option" of having different levels of Chinese classes sounded so ideal, but it is also a weak point of the program at RC. More options seem to be able to provide more choices of different level of Chinese classes. But more options may also give students the impression that there is always somewhere they can go even if they do not try hard.
Nonetheless, I believe it has probably never been an intention for IBO to require every IB student to have really a strong second language. I am sure RC is doing just what is required to bring everyone up to the required second language level. Just that it is probably my own expectation (and probably a lot other parents too) that IB Chinese B would be slightly more than what we have now.
To wrap up, if parents want good Chinese, it is too risky and unrealistic to believe that RC or ESF can deliever what they want. However, if you are happy with whatever you can get with one daily Chinese lesson, then RC or ESF are good options.
[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-4-6 14:11 編輯 ]
作者: yyyy 時間: 09-4-6 10:09
小女學校((IS)中二時便要我們決定中文是第一語言還是外語,請教應如何選擇?
作者: evatsoihk 時間: 09-4-7 14:40
爲什麽不問問你女兒，她想選哪一個做第一語言呢？
如果她的中、英文同樣都很強，那就比較頭疼了......
原帖由 yyyy 於 09-4-6 10:09 發表
小女學校((IS)中二時便要我們決定中文是第一語言還是外語,請教應如何選擇?
作者: kcpapa 時間: 09-4-7 18:06
?? IS ?? choose 1st language?? then what language are they using in school?? English or Chinese... I do not know any IS using Chinese as teaching language. I heard ISF is using Chinese from P1 to P3.
Agree!! Why don't you ask your daughter if she is good at Chinese, why not. In Japan, they are using Japanese, in China and Taiwan, they are using Chinese... only Hong Kong a tiny niche where east meet west, we want to use English. As long as the kids can learn most and interested to learn, language is only a media.
My daugher go IS is not because of language but the way of teaching.
作者: Ruby1219 時間: 09-4-7 20:53 標題: 回覆 # 的文章
her question is about 2nd language. Many IS asked parents/students to choose a second language when they enter secondary. E.g. in GSIS English Department, English is the 1st language, German is the 2nd (as far as I know), while kids can take Chinese or French as the 3rd language.
作者: kcpapa 時間: 09-4-7 22:51
Sorry... I have some difficulty in reading...
決定中文是第一語言還是外語,請教應如何選擇?
But I read again, I think she is asking if she should choose Chinese or Foreign language as the 1st language. Isn't it?
作者: yyyy 時間: 09-4-8 10:36
英文當然是第一語言,但學校可以讓同學選擇國語是第一語言或是外語...
我其實是不知道如果選國語是第一語言有什麼好處,選as外語又有什麼壞處...對將來升讀大學不知有沒有影響...
原帖由 evatsoihk 於 09-4-7 14:40 發表
爲什麽不問問你女兒，她想選哪一個做第一語言呢？
如果她的中、英文同樣都很強，那就比較頭疼了......
作者: evatsoihk 時間: 09-4-8 15:51
不太明白你的問題….既然英語已經是學校的第一語言，爲何還要學生去選擇呢？？
如果是爲了爭取分數上的優勢，那就要看你女兒她自問哪一個比較強了；但如果是爲了升讀大學而選擇的話，那當然是選擇英語了，皆因日後大學的參考書、文獻等資料，還是英文的參考書籍佔優勢，不僅容易收集資料，而且書的種類也多。
孩子若能用第一語言的思維去直接閲讀，就省卻了在腦海中“翻譯”的功夫。
不知道說得對不對，請各家長指教。
原帖由 yyyy 於 09-4-8 10:36 發表
英文當然是第一語言,但學校可以讓同學選擇國語是第一語言或是外語...
我其實是不知道如果選國語是第一語言有什麼好處,選as外語又有什麼壞處...對將來升讀大學不知有沒有影響...
...
作者: popolung 時間: 09-4-8 21:19
One should pick up the language preference when they are selecting the school for the kid, not after the kid has entered the school, at least for the 1st language, just my 2 cents.
作者: foolish.mom 時間: 09-4-8 22:02
yyy,
Is your kid doing IB?
For IB, besides English as a 1st language, students can study another 1st language (mostly Chinese language) or a 2nd language, or even two 1st language and one 2nd language.
In IS, most students' Chinese standard, I believe, are between 1st language and 2nd language. if they choose 1st language to study, they need to study harder and the average mark can be lower. If they choose 2nd language, mark is of course much higher, but the graduate certificate will show that the kid has studied Chinese as a 2nd language only.
It will affect University placement and future job selection.
It can be a difficult decision. But the Chinese teacher should have some comments about your kid's standard and make some recommendations.
作者: yyyy 時間: 09-4-9 11:59
你說的正是...
所以我有矛盾。如果從grade的角度出發,當然是選as 2nd language,因為對手相對不強,拿高分的機會大些;我本人傾向選as 1st language(假設學校老師比小女選擇),好處是學校的課程訓練會相對強些,學習到的東西會多些;壞處是公開考試時對手會強些...如果升大學和工作任選都沒有影響,就更加難選,如果有影響,選as 1st language都有其價值...
原帖由 foolish.mom 於 09-4-8 22:02 發表
yyy,
Is your kid doing IB?
For IB, besides English as a 1st language, students can study another 1st language (mostly Chinese language) or a 2nd language, or even two 1st language and one 2nd langua ...
作者: almom 時間: 09-4-9 16:29
原帖由 yyyy 於 09-4-9 11:59 發表
如果從grade的角度出發,當然是選as 2nd language,因為對手相對不強,拿高分的機會大些;
I think, for IB, the grade that you get with have nothing to do with 對手. Everyone is assessed according to his own performance. So, if it happens that everyone one is that good, we can have everyone getting 7s or 6s. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong though.
I know that most international school students in Hong Kong taking IBD are taking Chinese as second language. There are some that do both Chinese and English at first language level. But I am sure they are really the very few "good ones", because Chinese A is really hard and not every international school student can cope.
What subjects (and what level of the subjects) you should choose would very much depend on what you need to apply for universities.
For example, high level math would be necessary for engineerings. On the other hand, if you are considering majoring in English language, why take the hardest math to make your life difficult?
Practically speaking, it is not wise to (and students would usually be advised not to) take lots of "hard" subjects, unless they are absolutely necessary for application to universities.
It is the school's responsibility (because they should have the expertise to provide advice) to help students choose subjects. There are tactics that you need in order to choose the right subjects (at the right levels) to maximize your score. And a good school counselling team should be able to help students make the right choice.
[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-4-9 16:31 編輯 ]
作者: foolish.mom 時間: 09-4-9 23:34
yyyy,
Some more points to share:
For my kid, the school told us that he should study Chinese as a 1st language. So no need to choose.
I know that Chinese A1 at IB diploma level is really very tough, may be similar to Chinese language & literature of HKAL. I am doubtful if my kid can attain that level eventually. But I will let him stay in 1st language Chinese until and unless his teacher tells us not to.
W should encourage our kids to learn more Chinese at higher level, if they have the ability. Marks should not be the highest priority. If they stay in 2nd language Chinese, we are taking away their opportunity to learn higher level Chinese.
By the way, I think for IB marks, a 1st language Chinese at 5 or 6 is still better than 2nd language Chinese at 7 (both for U placement and future job), and the average mark is only lowered by 0.2 or 0.3.
Chinese is becoming more important. Two of my friends' daughters, who are lawyers and speak English better than Chinese, got the opportunity to work in Shanghai only because they can read and write Chinese.
原帖由 yyyy 於 09-4-9 11:59 發表
你說的正是...
所以我有矛盾。如果從grade的角度出發,當然是選as 2nd language,因為對手相對不強,拿高分的機會大些;我本人傾向選as 1st language(假設學校老師比小女選擇),好處是學校的課程訓練會相對強些,學習到的 ...
作者: almom 時間: 09-4-11 11:53
foolish.mom,
You are absolutely right. Chinese language is now extremely important. Many of my friends in the US (western friends) are making their children learn Chinese language at school. In fact, a lot of schools in the US are offering Chinese as an option, and it is probably the next most popular second language after Spanish.
I am now in a situation and would like to have yours and other parents view. I am now standing at a point where I really have problems pushing my kids Chinese further up. (Headache...)
My children have always been using English as their first language. I think it is their own Chinese foundation that make it really hard to move to anything close to Chinese A. In fact, they are probably the best amongst other students with similar background. Those kids seem to have been in the beginner level forever.
Of course, ideally, if they can even move a little up and have slightly better Chinese it would be good. But I think after almost 2 years with RC, I need to accept that this is probably quite impossible. They really cannot cope anything harder than the Chinese classes now.
I have been thinking. I stopped learning Chinese since secondary school when I moved to Canada. Since then I have studied in both Canada and the US without going back to seriously learn Chinese language at all.
I still speak and write Chinese and all my previous employers knew that. They have never doubt my Chinese language reading and writing ability, knowing that I have lived in North America for 20+ years, knowing that I only officially have primary level Chinese skills.
Obviously they did not ask for any official qualifications of Chinese language from me at all. And as far as I know, employers seldom check the Chinese language qualifications. In fact, I think quite a lot of overseas educated Hong Konger probably left Hong Kong as early as right after primary school (like me) and they would not have any official Chinese language qualifications at all. Unless you are thinking of being a civil servant, it appears to me that employers are more keen on making sure that your professional qualifications are good (your major at university is relevant) than checking out what you had for Chinese at HKCEE or A Level.
So is it really necessary that my children would need a Chinese A at all 10+ years from now? Chinese B would sound like much more "advanced" than my primary level Chinese. If I and so many others who do not have any Chinese language qualifications at all had no problem with using Chinese at work, why would any one with a Chinese B have any problem at all?
All views are welcome.
BTW, foolish.mom, do you mind telling us which school is your child(ren) studying now? Can you please share how you helped your child(ren) keep up with Chinese in an international school. It is already hard to really keep up and let alone being able to be as good as Chinese A level.
[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-4-11 11:54 編輯 ]
作者: mattsmum 時間: 09-4-12 12:21 標題: 回覆 # 的文章
I heard IB chinese A1 is not easy, here is someone's blog, just put it here for our knowlege of how it is:
第一部分 世界文學
康拉德 ─ 黑心 Heart of Darkness
珍‧瑞絲 ─ 夢迴藻海 The Wide Sargosso Sea
夏綠蒂‧伯朗特 ─ 簡愛 Jane Eyre
第二部分 精讀
柳宗元 ─ 散文 ─ 三戒、種樹郭橐駝傳、捕蛇者說、始得西山宴遊記、至小丘西小石潭記
漢樂府 ─ 詩詞 ─ 孔雀東南飛
第三部分 按體裁編組作品
錢鍾書 ─ 圍城
張愛玲 ─ 怨女
福樓拜 ─ 巴法利夫人 (世界文學)
※這部分我選的體裁是長篇小說
第四部分 學校自選作品
鄭愁予 ─ 夢土上
徐志摩 ─ 志摩的詩
佛羅斯特 Robert Frost ─ 詩選 selected poems (世界文學)
※這個部分選詩讓我吃了苦頭...我還沒開始讀，所以也不知道難不難
要強調的一點就是，我選的不一定都是好的，不必照單全收，這樣害到你我會不好意思啦
只是給你做參考而已，最重要的還是要選自己喜歡的書〈至少要看的下去的書〉會學的比較愉快
作者: mattsmum 時間: 09-4-12 12:26 標題: 回覆 # 的文章
sample again,
not eay,
why not just get the kid a private turtor and try the local chinese exam?
http://sites.cst.acs.sch.edu.sg/chinese/IB/IBa1h.html
IB Diploma Programme
Chinese A1 Higher Level Course Outline
中文A1高级课程纲要
学习作品总数：15
讲授内容 Texts
1. 世界文学作品1《咆哮山庄》爱米莉.勃朗特World Literature 1 “Wuthering Heights” by Emily Bronte
2. 世界文学作品2《苔丝》托马斯.哈代World Literature 2 “Tess of d’Urbervilles” by Thomas Hardy
3. 世界文学作品3《包法利夫人》福楼拜 World Literature 3 “Madame Bovary” by Gustave Flaubert
4. 世界文学作品4《局外人》阿尔贝.卡缪 World Literature 4 “L’Etranger” by Albert Camus
5. 古典诗歌《杜甫诗选》Classical Poetry “Du Fu Selected Poems”
6. 古典长篇小说《水浒传》 施耐庵Classical Novel “The Water Margin“ by Shi Nai An
7. 古典戏剧《西廂记》王实甫Classical Drama “The West Chamber” by Wang Shi Fu
8. 古典短篇小说《喻世名言》冯梦龙
Classical Short Stories “Tales of Morals” by Feng Meng Long
9. 现当代长篇小说《家》巴金 Contemporary Novel “Family” by Ba Jin
10. 现当代长篇小说《骆驼祥子》老舍
Contemporary Novel “Camel Xiang Zi” by Lao She
11. 《围城》钱钟书Contemporary Novel ”Fortress” by Qian Zhong Shu
12. 现代诗歌《徐志摩诗选》Modern Poetry “Xu Zhi Mo Selected Poems”
13. 现代散文《冰心文集》Modern Literary Works “Bing Xin Collected Works”
14. 现代短篇小说《彷徨》鲁迅
Modern Short Stories “Indecision” by Lu Xun
15. 台湾及海外作品《又见棕榈，又见棕榈》於梨华Taiwan and Overseas Novel “Again the Palm Trees” by Yu Li Hua
辅助阅读 Supplementary
1.《文学理论基本常识》
”Basic Concept of Literature”
2.《中文A1课程精要》“Students Guide to Success in IB Chinese A1”
3.古典长篇小说《红楼梦》曹雪芹
Classical Novel “Dream of the Red Chamber” by Cao Xue Qin
4.现代长篇小说《边城》沈从文
Modern Novel “The Border Town and Other Stories” by Shen Cong Wen
5.现代长篇小说《子夜》茅盾
Modern Novel “Midnight” by Mao Dun
6. 世界文学作品《老人与海》海明威
World Literature ”The Old Man and the Sea” by Hemingway, Ernest
7.古典长篇小说《三国演义》罗贯中
Classical Novel “Romance of the Three Kingdoms” by Luo Guan Zhong
8.现代话剧《茶馆》老舍Modern Drama “Tea House” by Lao She
作者: Saturn 時間: 09-4-12 13:51
Hi Almom,
Would you pls check pm? Thanks.
Saturn.
作者: mattsmum 時間: 09-4-12 17:12 標題: 回覆 # 的文章
a teacher told me that IB chinese curriculim will be changed in the coming year.
anyway I found this useful:http://www.51sat.com/other/ib/2184.html
IB中文课程简介
一、IB中文课程的分类
Chinese A1 (Higher Level & Standard Level)
Chinese A2 (Higher Level & Standard Level)
Chinese B (Higher Level & Standard Level)
Chinese AB (SL)
二、 课程概要
1. Chinese A1课程（Group l）
课程性质：属纯文学的母语课程。
教学对象：主要对象是母语特强、中学曾修读中华文学课程的学生。
课程的综合性：作品选读／写作／文学理论／文学史等四种文学课程的融合。
阅读为基础：15本（HL）或11本（SL）作品，分成四个不同的部分，各适用不同的考核要求。
考试：
校外 - 写作为主导（70％）：
(1) 世界文学作品论文（20％）
(2) 诗歌或散文作品评论（25％）
(3) 专题论文（EE）25％ (至少4800字)
校内 - 口试为辅（30％）：作品评述（15％）
作品片段评析录音口试（15％）
评核标准：学生对作品的思考、鉴赏和分析的能力。
2． Chinese A2课程（Group 2）
课程性质：为双语文凭者开设的课程。课程兼备文学和语言两类。
教学对象：主要对象是母语较好的学生。
课程的综合性：
(1)选读文学作品：六本(HL)、三本(SL)。
(2)A2和B课程的交叉之处：文化课题的选择部分，与B课程所包含的文化和语言现象研讨的课程性质，有相通的地方。
考试：
校外 - 写作（75％）：
(1) （试卷一）：两篇诗歌或散文作品的比较分析（25％）
(2) （试卷二）：六选一的应题作文（25％）
(3) 写作两篇，各占10％
校内 -口试（30％）：
(1) 选题研讨评述（15％）
(2) 作品评析录音口试（15％）
3. Chinese B课程（Group 2）：
课程性质：以语文教学为主。非常强调研讨中文所涵盖和体现的中国文化现象及实用性华语的学习，因而形成一般的华语中级课程不同的课程性质和要求。
教学对象：主要对象是有一般中学母语基础的学生。
课程的综合性：(1) B课程和A2课程的交叉之处 :文化选题的研究部分性质相通。立足汉语，看世界、看社会、看中华民族，掌握语言，了解中国文化。
(2) Higher和Standard的区别：作文字数不同。
Higher课程 – 480字；Standard课程 – 300字。）
教学要求：听、说、读、写并重。
考试：
校外 -写作，以阅读为基础（70％）：
(1) （试卷一）：四篇理解篇章，约57题（ 40％）
(2) （试卷二）：不同文体的选题作文（30％）
校内 -口试（30％）：
(1) 录音口试（15％）
时间分配和内容要求：
(a) 自选话题（5分钟）–
(b) 讨论话题（5分钟）
(c) 一般话题 （5分钟）
(2) 对话（15％）
作者: yyyy 時間: 09-4-20 10:19
多謝詳細的解釋。
我覺得這些課程很吸引,如果我女女有機會讀完這些中文系列,我相信我會以她為傲!感覺就好像讀local school的小朋友在小學階段便能讀完harry portter系列一樣,很值得高興!!!
原帖由 mattsmum 於 09-4-12 17:12 發表
a teacher told me that IB chinese curriculim will be changed in the coming year.
anyway I found this useful:http://www.51sat.com/other/ib/2184.html
IB中文课程简介
一、IB中文课程的分类
...
作者: tingtingting 時間: 09-4-20 11:37
I heard IB chinese A1 is not easy, here is someone's blog, just put it here for our knowlege of how it is:
Would you mind providing us with a link to the blog? Thanks.
作者: almom 時間: 09-4-20 14:08
原帖由 Saturn 於 09-4-12 13:51 發表
Hi Almom,
Would you pls check pm? Thanks.
Saturn.
I accidentally deleted a couple pm just now. Can you resend yours please? Thanks.
作者: mattsmum 時間: 09-4-20 18:21 標題: 回覆 # 的文章
can't find that student's blog, but saw another interesting one at:
http://hk.myblog.yahoo.com/misselleenli/article?mid=202
作者: tingtingting 時間: 09-4-20 18:31
Thanks Mattsmum
作者: mattsmum 時間: 09-4-20 21:06 標題: 回覆 # 的文章
http://www.wretch.cc/blog/lurvejoyce/19325784
this is the link to a blog that was quoted before.
another one, from a parent whose kid is taking IB in china:
http://www.cedu.cn/bbs/dispbbs.a ... p;star=2&page=1
作者: almom 時間: 09-4-21 10:23
Thanks Mattsmum!
Do you think you can get hold of the Chinese B reading/study list too?
作者: Saturn 時間: 09-4-21 13:13
Hi Almom
Pls check PM again. Thanks.
Saturn.
作者: mattsmum 時間: 09-4-21 13:19 標題: 回覆 # 的文章
http://sites.cst.acs.sch.edu.sg/chinese/IB/IB.html
this site shows reading list for different level, but not level b. useful site.
I am not an expert, only learn a lot /ask a lot attending vic. seminar or search in the internet.
作者: almom 時間: 09-4-21 13:45
Thanks a lot, Mattsmum!
Very useful site indeed!
Chinese B is probably still quite challenging for IS students.
作者: mattsmum 時間: 09-4-21 14:07 標題: 回覆 # 的文章
IGCSE A level or O level chinese seems to be easier:
http://www.cie.org.uk/qualificat ... bject?assdef_id=737
作者: bakusensei 時間: 09-4-21 14:26
Grateful for your advice if comparing with HSK (http://www.hsk.org.cn/). Is HSK a very easy test?
作者: yyyy 時間: 09-4-21 14:28
女女學校中四考IGCSE,中六考IB,是否這兩種中文完全沒有關連?
作者: WYmom 時間: 09-4-21 15:21
原帖由 foolish.mom 於 09-4-9 23:34 發表
yyyy,
Some more points to share:
For my kid, the school told us that he should study Chinese as a 1st language. So no need to choose.
I know that Chinese A1 at IB diploma level is really very tough ...
Agree with you very much. My kid's school (traditonal ESF) also prepare some students since year 7 to take both English and Chinese exams at native (1st) language level. We don't need to choose or worry. We just leave it to the school. If they see problems in achieving the standards required, they will communicate with parents.
We only need to choose for the kid the study of a 3rd language like French, Spanish or Japanese etc.
作者: mattsmum 時間: 09-4-21 21:09 標題: 回覆 # 的文章
copied from other website:
汉语水平考试（HSK）是专门为测量母语非汉语者外国人的汉语水平而设立的一种标准化考试，主要依据是《汉语水平等级标准和等级大纲》和《汉语水平词汇与汉字等级大纲》。
该大纲的词汇范围（等级）分为4级：甲级词（1033个）、乙级词（2018个）、丙级词（2202个）和丁级词（3569个），共8822个。
HSK汉字库系统是由HSK词汇生成的。甲、乙、丙、丁四级词（8822）中共含2864个字。
----------------
国家语委和国家教委于1988年3月2日联合发布的《现代汉语常用字表》是中国大陆地区中小学汉语母语基础教育的依据。该字表分为一级常用字(2500字)和二级次常用字(1000字)两个部分。中国教育部颁布的《全日制义务教育语文课程标准（实验稿） 》 明确指出，九年课程的总目标是“认识3500个左右常用汉字”，年级分配如下：
第一学段（1～2年级）：认识常用汉字1600～1800个，其中800～1000个会写。
第二学段（3～4年级）：累计认识常用汉字2500个，其中2000个左右会写。
第三学段（5～6年级）：累计认识常用汉字3000个，其中2500个左右会写。
第四学段（7～9年级）：累计认识常用汉字3500个，其中3000个左右会写。
I think HK's standard is 2500 to 3000 words learned at P6.
作者: yyyy 時間: 09-4-22 09:26
女女學校都有recommend他們考,我沒有報,請問值得考嗎?
原帖由 mattsmum 於 09-4-21 21:09 發表
copied from other website:
汉语水平考试（HSK）是专门为测量母语非汉语者外国人的汉语水平而设立的一种标准化考试，主要依据是《汉语水平等级标准和等级大纲》和《汉语水平词汇与汉字等级大纲》。
该大纲的词汇范围（等级） ...
作者: mattsmum 時間: 09-4-22 13:10
[quote]原帖由 yyyy 於 09-4-22 09:26 發表
女女學校都有recommend他們考,我沒有報,請問值得考嗎?
[/quote
i really don't konw, I think all exams are bench mark, so HKCEE is one bench mark for HK employer if they want to know the standard of chinese of an applicant.
Talking about bi-lingual IB certificate, I came across a boy who finished HKCEE, so he has passed one bench mark. He then obtained his IB bi-lingual certificate in UK- english A1 and spanish - junior level. I think if my kind can achieve the same goal, that would be good enough.
chinese A1 really appears to be to much.
作者: bakusensei 時間: 09-4-23 09:56
原帖由 mattsmum 於 09-4-21 21:09 發表
copied from other website:
汉语水平考试（HSK）是专门为测量母语非汉语者外国人的汉语水平而设立的一种标准化考试，主要依据是《汉语水平等级标准和等级大纲》和《汉语水平词汇与汉字等级大纲》。
该大纲的词汇范围（等级） ...
million thanks for your valuable information. :)
I further check the internet with your clue "《汉语水平等级标准和等级大纲》和《汉语水平词汇与汉字等级大纲》。" and found that:
（2）凡接受过400-2000学时现代汉语正规教育，掌握2000-5000汉语常用词（甲、乙、丙级常用词）和与之相应的语法项目（甲、乙、丙级语法项目）的汉语学习者，均适于参加HSK（初、中等）。
（3）凡掌握5000-8000汉语常用词（甲、乙、丙、丁级常用词）和与之相应的语法项目（甲、乙、丙、丁级语法项目），具有高等汉语水平的汉语学习者，均适于参加HSK（高
等）。
(http://www.51hsk.com/lingshi/index.html?id=)
As 6 级
具有中级（低）汉语能力，可以获取中等《汉语水平证书》 C 级。这是中国国家教育部规定的外国留学生入中国文、史、中医类院、系学习的最低汉语能力标准, in that case, I guess 5,000 words will be ~ the level for that basic entry requirement.
Would you mind advising the appro. no. of words learnt for F.6 in local school?
Any advice on AP Chinese? How's the level?
Million million thanks in advanced!
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