教育王國
標題: 小學讀際小學,中學時轉回傳統中學 [打印本頁]
作者: heiB 時間: 09-7-17 11:14 標題: 小學讀際小學,中學時轉回傳統中學
有沒有家長的小朋友試過小學讀際小學,中學時轉回傳統中學,可行嗎?
作者: Yau_Cheung 時間: 09-7-17 14:11
聽講小部份Singerpore International School 學生完成小學後，會轉讀本地中學。其他國際學校學生較少轉讀本地中學。
原帖由 heiB 於 09-7-17 11:14 發表 
有沒有家長的小朋友試過小學讀際小學,中學時轉回傳統中學,可行嗎?
作者: Mighty 時間: 09-7-17 17:13
其他国際学校我不知、但ＳＪＳ的話、就没可能転回伝統中学、一定追不上。 但ＤＳＳ的話、就大有可能。
作者: heiB 時間: 09-7-17 19:43 標題: 回覆 1# Mighty 的文章
SJS 及DSS 的全名是?
作者: Mighty 時間: 09-7-17 19:52
SJS = Shatin Junior School
DSS = 直資学校
作者: Cara2006 時間: 09-7-18 09:51
原帖由 Yau_Cheung 於 09-7-17 14:11 發表
聽講小部份Singerpore International School 學生完成小學後，會轉讀本地中學。其他國際學校學生較少轉讀本地中學。
The curriculum of SIS is very good.
They have good standand in all areas including Chinese.
On the other hand, I think those ESF (SJS being one of ESF schools) students are really very behind in all areas, in particular Chinese. Even if you are considering taking the French stream (many local elite secondary schools offer French too and students can take French instead of Chinese) in local secondary school, you will be very behind in other subjects. In fact, ESF has the lowest standard amongst all international schools.
If you are considering international school + local school path, you need to choose anything other than ESF.
作者: popolung 時間: 09-7-18 20:40
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作者: awah112 時間: 09-7-18 21:35
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作者: popolung 時間: 09-7-18 22:09
原帖由 awah112 於 09-7-18 21:35 發表
中文一定追唔上。
除咗英文，大部份科都會追唔上，D terms 同教法轉咗中文，teaching method 亦完全唔一樣，冇得愽！
作者: Yau_Cheung 時間: 09-7-18 22:24
Agree. I think it is similar as local chinese primary school promote to international secondary school. 
原帖由 popolung 於 09-7-18 22:09 發表
除咗英文，大部份科都會追唔上，D terms 同教法轉咗中文，teaching method 亦完全唔一樣，冇得愽！
作者: nintendo 時間: 09-7-19 11:48
I want to add that a student might "追唔上" NOT because international schools are "slower" or "behind" local school academically. But that there will be problems with getting used to the language of instructions, teaching method, and the general culture around the school.
I must stress that international schools are quite advanced in certain ways academically and should not be considered not as competitive academically.
But certainly it will be hard for students to switch from an international school to a local school. All international schools have English environment and the general school culture is very western. Local schools have very local Chinese environment and they have very local Cantonese culture. Even though those local elite schools are teaching in English, the whole school culture is still local.
A student that have grown up or brought up under western culture might find it difficult to fit in.
So this is probably a fit-in problem, and not exactly merely language or academic problem.
Having said that, students usually have less fit-in problems when switchging from local schools to international schools because international schools are much more well prepared for students from other curriculum. International schools students are also less hostile and more friendly towards new students.
作者: mow-mow 時間: 09-7-20 11:44
Depends on what local chinese primary school you are talking about.
Many elite local school kids switch to international schools or go abroad between F1 & F3, and they don't have too much problem settling in.
From local to international is certainly a lot easier than from international to local!
原帖由 Yau_Cheung 於 09-7-18 22:24 發表
Agree. I think it is similar as local chinese primary school promote to international secondary school. :sickmilk:
作者: Pianokc 時間: 09-7-20 13:15
I would NEVER consider doing this.
Primary school- local ok.
Secondary School- then int'l is ok.
Why would you consider this ?
作者: nintendo 時間: 09-7-20 13:24
原帖由 mow-mow 於 09-7-20 11:44 發表
Depends on what local chinese primary school you are talking about.
Many elite local school kids switch to international schools or go abroad between F1 & F3, and they don't have too much problem sett ...
Not depends on which school, but rather depends on the personality of the student.
I personally know someone from DXS that got into an international school and had huge problem fitting socially and academically. There was another case (a more remote friend's child) where a top student from a local elite boy's school who got very outstanding results at HKCEE that had problem fitting in academically with an international school running IBD program.
The former student (and parents) did not want to admit the problems and the kid suffered 3 years before transferring to a high school in England.
The latter student and parents were more open with facing the problem and quick in making a decision and switched the guy back to local school stream after a few months; and eventually got very good results in the local A-level.
It is hard to generalise and not everyone is willing to admit and tell others the problems they have at school. So parents need to prepare for the worst.
作者: mow-mow 時間: 09-7-20 14:13
In whatever situations, there are always going to be examples of failure or success.
But over the years, I've seen & known many local school kids who went to boarding schools in the UK & flourished.
Got to admit that I don't know too many who switched to international schools in Hong Kong as that is only a fairly recent trend.
But I don't suppose those who managed to flourish at Eton & Harrow would have had problems at GSIS & CIS!
But you are quite right that personality is important as the kids need to be able to fit in.
And you have also brought out a point that IBD might not be suitable for everyone.
All the more reason for us parents to find what is most suitable for our own kids.
原帖由 nintendo 於 09-7-20 13:24 發表
Not depends on which school, but rather depends on the personality of the student.
I personally know someone from DXS that got into an international school and had huge problem fitting socially and ...
作者: nintendo 時間: 09-7-21 12:22
原帖由 mow-mow 於 09-7-20 14:13 發表
In whatever situations, there are always going to be examples of failure or success.
That was exactly what I wanted to point out.
I have also seen so many local school students that ended up with nothing after a few years overseas.
So it is too dangerous to generalise that local school students have no problems fitting in. This is all I was trying to say.
作者: nintendo 時間: 09-7-21 12:35
原帖由 mow-mow 於 09-7-20 14:13 發表
But I don't suppose those who managed to flourish at Eton & Harrow would have had problems at GSIS & CIS!
I totaly agree. But how many of those local schools students have the quality to go to these schools? It is quite dangerous to pick a couple of examples for the sake of proofing yourself.
Honestly, we all know better that many are probably not doing exactly well and only managed to get a place in "very average" schools overseas. I would doubt whether those students would even any chance with GSIS, CIS at all.
Thus, I am sticking to my views. Do not generalise. Whether from local school to international school, or vice versa, there would be bumps that students need to face.
[ 本帖最後由 nintendo 於 09-7-21 12:52 編輯 ]
作者: mow-mow 時間: 09-7-22 09:10
Actually, quite a few.
Most of the top schools in the UK take in elite local school students every year, obviously some more than others.
I know for a fact that there are girls from DGS, St Paul Coed, Maryknoll & St Stephen Girls' currently studying at Cheltenham Ladies' and boys from Wah Yan & La Salle studying at Harrow.
There are others that I know who are studying at Winchester, Badminton, Tonbridge.....etc.
I am certainly not giving just one or two examples.
Going from local school to UK boarding school has been a tried & trusted route over the last 30 years.
I went through that route personally, as did many of my friends, and now most of their kids.
When I first went to the UK in my early teens, I couldn't speak fluent English like the local English kids, but I sure could write better than a lot of them.
Being in an environment where I have to use English daily, it took no time at all for me to be able to talk to & argue with the best of them.
My friends' experiences have been similar.
What I want to say is that for elite local school kids to switch to a UK boarding school, language is not a problem (at least not for long).
In fact, most of their parents will not even give that a thought, let alone worry about it.
Out of the thousands of kids who studied abroad over the last 30 years, of course there have been many failures.
But I do think that failure is more likely due to difficulty in making adjustments, ie personality probelm.
That's why I agreed with you that personality is important & parents need to figure out whether their child is suitable.
I never said that local school kids have no problem at boarding school, but most manage to overcome their problems.
From my own experience & from what I've come across (I've spent the good part of two decades in the UK), my views are mostly positive.
You'll probably say that I am generalising again, but isn't this topic a general topic?
原帖由 nintendo 於 09-7-21 12:35 發表
I totaly agree. But how many of those local schools students have the quality to go to these schools? It is quite dangerous to pick a couple of examples for the sake of proofing yourself.
Honestly, ...
[ 本帖最後由 mow-mow 於 09-7-22 09:20 編輯 ]
作者: WYmom 時間: 09-7-22 10:26
In respond to the original question of this topic, I know a few ESF students that due to financial reasons chose to study in a local English DSS which offers foreign students and local students classes. In secondary schools, most subjects are taught in English, these students don't have much problem to fit in, they likely have problems in Chinese subjects and fitting in the local school culture.
In fact, IS students graduated from UK system IS are at least one year younger than local P.6 students as they start year 1 at 4 to 5 years old and graduate from year 6 at 10 or 11 years old, which equivalent to P.5 local students. That's why people always said that they are "lacking behind".
For SIS, ICS or ICAS etc. which follows similar age system as the local system, there will be no one year gap problem from primary to secondary.
[ 本帖最後由 WYmom 於 09-7-22 10:33 編輯 ]
作者: nintendo 時間: 09-7-22 10:51
原帖由 mow-mow 於 09-7-22 09:10 發表
Actually, quite a few.
Most of the top schools in the UK take in elite local school students every year, obviously some more than others.
mow-mow,
You seemed to have misunderstood me.
I was trying to say that it is not possible to be so sure that local school students have no problems in fitting in an international school.
Of course, I know lots of UK top schools take local school students. I personally know a few.
But amongst the whole pool of students that go to study abroud, how many of them are in your "samples" of "local elite school + top schools", which you believed (and I do too), have no problem fitting in?
Well, not a big percentage.
Most are merely ordinary local school students, and then went overseas to very average high schools. Many of these local school students may even have problems with the local school English program.
Are you sure this majority can even get admission to GSIS or CIS you mentioned?
Discussion are of course in a way generalising. But we need to look at the situation as a big picture. It would only be conclusive if it is true for most. Hand picking samples from is not going to be a fair discussion.
作者: thankful 時間: 09-7-22 11:07
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作者: Annie123 時間: 09-7-22 11:09
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作者: heiB 時間: 09-7-22 11:32 標題: 回覆 2# thankful 的文章
我有這個題問,不是因為經濟問題.只是我朋友的孩子現讀國際學校小學,想中學轉回本地中學.只是問問有沒有人試過,並想從中了解可行性及遇到的因難.正如有媽咪講過,轉校真的要有周詳的考慮,所以在些問問.如各位媽咪有實際資料,請告知作參考.
作者: Annie123 時間: 09-7-22 11:39
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作者: TINGMUM 時間: 09-7-22 12:14
你要勸下你個friend不要太多心, 轉來轉去不是一件好事, 要個11, 12歲己不再是小朋友的孩子去適應全新的教學模式,會很難溶入新的社交圈子, 小朋友中文能力真的好到可以應付到本地中學的中文科及中史嗎? 如不是, 這對小朋友打擊或自信會有好大的影響.
雖然我的小朋友只是小學生, 有過同樣經驗, 真希望家長不要隨便幫小朋友轉去另一種教學模式. 對小朋友的傷害總會比你後悔來得快!
原帖由 heiB 於 09-7-22 11:32 發表
我有這個題問,不是因為經濟問題.只是我朋友的孩子現讀國際學校小學,想中學轉回本地中學.只是問問有沒有人試過,並想從中了解可行性及遇到的因難.正如有媽咪講過,轉校真的要有周詳的考慮,所以在些問問.如各位媽咪有實 ...
作者: heiB 時間: 09-7-22 13:57
對不起想問問.你是不是有小朋友由國際小學轉回本地小學的經驗嗎?如方便的話,可否告知過中的困難?原帖由 TINGMUM 於 09-7-22 12:14 發表
你要勸下你個friend不要太多心, 轉來轉去不是一件好事, 要個11, 12歲己不再是小朋友的孩子去適應全新的教學模式,會很難溶入新的社交圈子, 小朋友中文能力真的好到可以應付到本地中學的中文科及中史嗎? 如不是, 這對 ...
作者: awah112 時間: 09-7-22 20:05
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作者: Reximom 時間: 09-7-24 10:25
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作者: Cara2006 時間: 09-7-24 10:57
原帖由 Reximom 於 09-7-24 10:25 發表
Your argument is totally illogical.
You were merely trying to find ways out to explain why local students are easier to fit into IS while IS students have more difficulties to fit into local schools ...
作者: chanms 時間: 09-9-6 13:51
My son studied at SIS from PY1 to P6. Then promoted to local school Ti-i, and he is studying F.3.
Difficulties:
1. As SIS's Chinese standard is quite high, the problems are about simplified --> traditional writing, and lack of Chinese vocab.
He failed in Chinese at the first term at F.1, and then all are passed afterwards.
2. Adapt to Culture, it depends on personality. A lot of changes in the school cultuer, facilities and peers background. He spent about half term to adapt.
3. Maths - SIS's Math is complicated but the quantity is less than local school. So, we spent time to speed up his calculation.
The main reason for my son to switch to local school is "he likes drawing, art and design". And Ti-i established a good environment and spent a lot of resources in the art development. So, he wished to apply this school when he was P.4.
I always believe my son is lucky and his educational path is easy. Not much workload, but good languagues (Mandarin & English) developed in primary school. Low workload in the secondary school. When everyone busy in picking up English(Hist, Geog, Art, Liberal Studies), he only spent time in picking up Chinese.
Finally, he enjoys his study life at the current school.
Yes, personality is the main issue for a child switch the educational stream.
作者: heiB 時間: 09-9-7 16:54 標題: 回覆 1# chanms 的文章
chanms
Thanks for your information. It is very useful.
作者: papa_pop 時間: 09-9-15 17:16
I also know a kid switching from an IS to local school. Far as I know, she had studied up to P3 at IS. Don't know why the change. But she's been doing great all along (great grades in HKCEE).
I'm not encouraging such a switch, but only telling you a case for ref.
作者: heiB 時間: 09-9-16 13:13 標題: 回覆 1# papa_pop 的文章
Thanks. The case is good for reference.
作者: Mimi_Ma 時間: 09-9-17 15:42
delete delete..
[ 本帖最後由 Mimi_Ma 於 09-9-27 17:17 編輯 ]
作者: elmostoney 時間: 09-9-25 14:50
chanms, how did you find SIS in general?
Other than a handful of IS which has strong emphasis on Chinese, I doubt IS students can transition into LS smoothly. My neices go to ESF, studying in F.4. Their Chinese is equivalent to LS P.5 or P.6 level - with a lot of 白字. Math curriculum is equivalent to F2 of LS.
作者: WYmom 時間: 09-9-25 15:17
原帖由 elmostoney 於 09-9-25 14:50 發表
chanms, how did you find SIS in general?
Other than a handful of IS which has strong emphasis on Chinese, I doubt IS students can transition into LS smoothly. My neices go to ESF, studying in F.4. ...
Please note that:
1. ESF is running UK system, F.4 means Year 10 equals to F.3 in local school (ESF starts primary at age 5 and have 7 years of secondary school)
2. ESF classifies students into different levels of Chinese and Maths groups since primary according to their abilities, Your niece's Chinese and Maths levels only reflect her own standard and definitely not representing all IS students. The top Chinese group of ESF students are studying the same or higher level of Chinese books as their counterparts in local schools, i.e. Year 10 students (which equal to F.3 local students) learn F.4 Singaporean Chinese books.
3. As I have mentioned before, transition to local DSS is possible, I know some ESF students switched to local DSS due to lower school fees. All depends on the capabilities of the students.
[ 本帖最後由 WYmom 於 09-9-25 15:22 編輯 ]
作者: elmostoney 時間: 09-9-25 22:23
my nieces are in the advanced group already in all classification, whether math or chinese. I do know they use singapore textbooks for chinese class. they are above average students in their school. I have also spent some time investigating their chinese and math curriculum as I am thinking about sending my kids to IS. believe me , they already represent, if not the top 10% in school, at least the top 30% or so. I have expressed a lot of interest in their learning as it has direct effect on my decision as to which school to apply.
I have 3 other nephews and niece who graduated from CIS. 2 graduated from the University of Chicago (one of the top 10 schools in the US) and the other one is studying law in the UK. The father is crazy about education. Everywhere he goes, he goes campus visiting at universities. When his kids were still in secondary school, he would sent them to summer schools at Cambridge and the likes. His daughter graduated as the top 2 or 5% from CIS that year(sorry, I don't remember). She scored I don't remember how many A's on her UK中五會考，BUT even the father admits that UK中五會考 is easier than HK. Their Chinese? their f.6 curriculum includes something from 巴金 too, but don't expect them to understand 金庸．
i left HK to study overseas after F.1, and i went to a so-called English LS - with only 2 subjects in Chinese - history and literature. but i can understand 紅樓夢 and 金庸．the key to good chinese is not only what they teach in school. are the kids willing to read chinese books on their own? I took French for 6.5 years starting from HK equivalent of F.2. When I was going to school , i could read something as difficult as 17th century literature which uses a lot of grammar much more complicated than present day french. but I could never attain fluency in terms of writing and reading (not to mention oral and aural) because it was just a subject from school. I did my work and had good scores, but I didn't normally do leisure reading in french - which is probably much easier than Chinese. The problem with most IS in Chinese is that, the environment doesn't promote the language! My nieces talked to their Chinese school mates in English! they just feel Chinese is a difficult subject, so it is confined as school work and not made part of their daily life. They can score based on the subject matter taught, but they cannot write the language as part of life.
[ 本帖最後由 elmostoney 於 09-9-25 22:49 編輯 ]
作者: BabaTed 時間: 09-9-26 02:20
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作者: WYmom 時間: 09-9-26 07:37
原帖由 elmostoney 於 09-9-25 22:23 發表
my nieces are in the advanced group already in all classification, whether math or chinese. I do know they use singapore textbooks for chinese class. they are above average students in their school. ...
In real IS, the environment is naturally and should be an English speaking environment instead of Chinese speaking one as they have staff and students of international nationalities. Only those "IS" such as Yew Chung having 90%+ local Chinese students will provide a Chinese speaking environment. You can choose those if you prefer that.
To help kids using, reading or writing Chinese more in real life, it is really the parents' job. We develop our kids to read a lot of Chinese and English books since they are very small. My elder kid in secondary ESF now still likes to borrow Chinese story novels frequently herself, same level as other local kids at her age.
Anyway, as many IS parents have mentioned again and again, in IS, there are many more important aspects to treasure for developing our children rather than only focusing on learning Chinese.
作者: almom 時間: 09-9-26 10:45
I do not see why somehow, some parents is going back to this "chinese thing" again.
It is a little unfair to compare the chinese standard of IS students with local school students. We cannot simply say the chinese curriculum or chinese environment is a "poor model" simply because students do not have good chinese skills.
As parents, it is our responsibilities to do the due diligence. Parents should see what you expect, and see whether the school can possibly deliver what you want.
When you go to law school, you cannot possibly expect your law 101 professor to teach you how to do calculus. If you want to learn more about calculus, go to calculus 101. You have gone to the wrong class. You cannot say that the law school is "not good enough" simply they do not teach you math.
Same thing apply here. We all know (should know) international schools are not going to provide chinese curriculum as demanding as local schools. Oh, you were not aware of that. You have not done your due diligence. No use to complain now. Withdraw you child from the IS and put him in a local school.
In any case, lets get back to the original topic and not drag on the "chinese thing" again.....
[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-9-26 10:52 編輯 ]
作者: almom 時間: 09-9-26 10:50
小學讀際小學,中學時轉回傳統中學
Practically, yes.
If we are merely talking about the Chinese curriculum, then there is a way out.
A lot of secondary schools offer French as an alternative language to Chinese.
Regarding other subjects, it is hard to say.
Everyone is different.
Switching school is itself a challenging task. Even if you are switching from local to local, or IS to IS, you are probably expecting some bumps. No 2 schools are exactly that similar and there are the peer relation thing to consider as well. Some children hate to be taken away from their buddies in the previous school.
Lots of things to consider.
作者: mattsmum 時間: 09-9-26 11:20
how could university distingush good student from normal student? I don't have an answer.
but I know the answer about all-A studnents, some of them are just exam machine, i saw many of such in my univeristy days. they were boring people. they can't have any fun discussion with the guest in high-table dinner.
getting all A should not be the purpose of education. nurturing a child is more than that.
[ 本帖最後由 mattsmum 於 09-9-26 11:25 編輯 ]
作者: mattsmum 時間: 09-9-27 09:03
moved to other topic
[ 本帖最後由 mattsmum 於 09-9-27 09:40 編輯 ]
作者: elmostoney 時間: 09-9-27 10:17
WYmom，couldn't agree with you more! 我睇住我ｄ親戚，佢地入is嘅目的係唔想同仔女做功課！所以學術上佢地係唔會理，家長唔鼓勵，又唔係屋企提供環境因素，個小朋友點會想睇中文？我一見到呢ｄ家長，諗住自己舒服ｄ，我就ar哂頭．個阿媽自己做政府工，覺得好正，所以想ｄ細路將來都係，但佢又知道考政府工中文一定要得，佢都知自己細路ｄ中文唔掂．
想問下，你嘅小朋友中文可以理解到物野書呢？我有考慮申請ESF，我覺得數學behind LS唔緊要，最緊要睇小朋友取向，又唔係要做數學家或讀理科就冇物所謂，如果佢有興趣呢方面就自然會比多ｄ effort，我讀完calculus，而家都唔記得哂啦，工作上亦都冇用，所以我又唔係好insist一定要所以academics都要match with ls，除非想留條後路轉返出來．但中文係大勢，我驚單靠係屋企推動唔夠．
作者: elmostoney 時間: 09-9-27 10:27
Baba Ted, I think a different way of teaching, a new environment, etc. can really bring the child around. If a child knows he is known as the bottom of the class, he may not have much motivation to improve vs. in a new school, he starts afresh. anyway, i believe there are many factors.
I didn't go to school in the UK. I was in the US. Their level of math is really easier when I started. Here's is my math schedule:
F2 Algebra 1
F3 Geometry
F4 Algebra 2
F5 Trigonometry
F6 Calculus
For one whole year, I only did one aspect of math. I don't know if I have caught up with the HK curriculum by F6, but we did cover all aspects by the time I graduated.
As for university admission, truly TOP US universities do not take school grades alone into account. Usually there is an interview, an essay, the SAT of course (which a lot of Chinese will have a hard time with the English part), community work and extra curriculum activities. In effect, top US universities are looking for well-rounded individuals who also excel academically, capable of independent thinking and problem solving - traits which, I am afraid, LS will find hard to offer as LS often emphasize on 聽話，乖，etc.
作者: almom 時間: 09-9-27 13:14
我覺得數學
behind LS唔緊要，
I do not think they are exactly behind local school.
I think they are learning math at a totally different approach.
作者: elmostoney 時間: 09-9-27 16:33
但無可否認,好多時international math level做親比較, 亞洲國家 - 特別係用傳統方法教授 - 係呢d比賽通常都係呢類學生勝出, 幾時聽過有人話歐美d數比亞洲人d數好? 我唔係expert, 亦冇做過物野detail 研究, 但係我相信呢d真係the results speak for themselves.
我唔知外國教數學可以有幾唔同, 都係上堂, 老師教, 上堂做下練習, 返屋企做下功課, 最多編排課程嘅先後唔同.
作者: almom 時間: 09-9-27 18:09
原帖由 elmostoney 於 09-9-27 16:33 發表
但無可否認,好多時international math level做親比較, 亞洲國家 - 特別係用傳統方法教授 - 係呢d比賽通常都係呢類學生勝出, 幾時聽過有人話歐美d數比亞洲人d數好? 我唔係expert, 亦冇做過物野detail 研究, 但係我相 ...
I was not talking about the person, but the curriculum.
My point was, western math curriculum is not BEHIND local math curriculum.
作者: WYmom 時間: 09-9-27 19:54
原帖由 elmostoney 於 09-9-27 16:33 發表
但無可否認,好多時international math level做親比較, 亞洲國家 - 特別係用傳統方法教授 - 係呢d比賽通常都係呢類學生勝出, 幾時聽過有人話歐美d數比亞洲人d數好? 我唔係expert, 亦冇做過物野detail 研究, 但係我相 ...
The way of teaching in IS on Maths, English, Science, History, Geography etc. is very different from local schools. They teach the concept much more clearly. They require students to explain maths in texts. Please don't draw conclusion to standards without thorough understandings.
This is not a topic of local schools vs IS. They are very different types of schools, parents should understand more first before choosing rather than switching back and forward.
作者: elmostoney 時間: 09-9-28 09:46
i guess I myself qualified as a person who went to what we call international schools here in HK as I studied in a US school - in fact, a school made up with 90% caucasian in a middle class neighborhood (engineers, doctors, etc.) My math was just very average in HK, and it zoomed to all As once there. I don't think the way math was presented was very different. When I first got there, the math was just...simpler, although it did get tougher in the higher levels (last 2 years). Even with the last 2 years, I still scored very well on SAT for the math part.
My school was a relatively good school with the good students (all schools have more achieved and less achieved kids) going to good universities. As I myself went through the system (instead of witnessing it second hand through my kids), I truly believe what I said have grounds.
Having said that, because of my own experience between hong kong mainstream schools and what we choose to call international schools in HK, I prefer to send my kids to international schools as I don't believe high level of academics is everything in life.
[ 本帖最後由 elmostoney 於 09-9-28 09:51 編輯 ]
作者: WYmom 時間: 09-9-28 10:03
原帖由 elmostoney 於 09-9-28 09:46 發表
i guess I myself qualified as a person who went to what we call international schools here in HK as I studied in a US school - in fact, a school made up with 90% caucasian in a middle class neighborho ...
What I have experienced with my kids are quite different from US or Canadian schools (I also have experienced with that in Canada), in HK ESF they use UK cirriculum and IB PYP now. I think different IS use different system and methods. SIS uses Singaporean method, which is also different from US and UK methods.
Besides, as I have said before, there is age difference between local, Singapore, UK and US/ Canadian system, UK's Y1/Y6 = other countries' K3/ P.5, so it is not correct to compare ESF Y1-Y11 to other schools' P1-F.5.
UK GCSE is taken by their Y11 students (age 15), which equals to F.4 level in HK / US/ Canada/ Singapore, so people always said that HKCEE is more difficult, standard is higher... no one really recognize or admit that in fact in the past, HK students study 3 years of kinder, 6 years of primary and 7 years of secondary, 3 to 4 years of universities, so naturally they should attain a higher standard than all others!!
In future, the HK students will be taking the new secondary diploma and no more HKAL. The results will be different from the past.
[ 本帖最後由 WYmom 於 09-9-28 10:48 編輯 ]
作者: Yau_Cheung 時間: 09-9-28 13:03
"幾時聽過有人話歐美d數比亞洲人d數好? " - 數學家歐美應該較亞洲多。
原帖由 elmostoney 於 09-9-27 16:33 發表
但無可否認,好多時international math level做親比較, 亞洲國家 - 特別係用傳統方法教授 - 係呢d比賽通常都係呢類學生勝出, 幾時聽過有人話歐美d數比亞洲人d數好? 我唔係expert, 亦冇做過物野detail 研究, 但係我相 ...
[ 本帖最後由 Yau_Cheung 於 09-9-28 13:04 編輯 ]
作者: 畢學武 時間: 09-9-28 13:33 標題: 回覆 51# WYmom 的文章
係咪真係咁呢?如果祇計年齡,HKU學士咪=UK master?
作者: almom 時間: 09-9-28 13:39
原帖由 elmostoney 於 09-9-28 09:46 發表
i guess I myself qualified as a person who went to what we call international schools here in HK as I studied in a US school - in fact, a school made up with 90% caucasian in a middle class neighborho ...
I have lived in Canada and the US. And I have a total different experience. May be it was just me? But the way they taught math was definitely very different from the Hong Kong way.
I do not think the "fast" and "ambitious" curriculum in local school is that beneficial. Most student do not understand what they are doing. They are just doing their calculations mechanically. I am sure many people are simply looking for quick return, but I would rather my children have good and solic foundation before moving on. Unfortunately, local curriculum cannot provide the solid foundation I expect.
[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-9-28 14:40 編輯 ]
作者: 畢學武 時間: 09-9-28 13:47
唔祇數學家,mud家中國都比欧美少,中國績弱數百年,咁又点培養什麽家?不過古時數學應該亞洲人好啲,阿拉伯數字印度人發明,畢氏定理中國早千多年發現,易經有道:鈎三股四其絃即五也。
原帖由 Yau_Cheung 於 09-9-28 13:03 發表
"幾時聽過有人話歐美d數比亞洲人d數好? " - 數學家歐美應該較亞洲多。
作者: wisekid2007 時間: 09-9-29 10:43
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作者: wisekid2007 時間: 09-9-29 10:48
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作者: mow-mow 時間: 09-9-29 13:23
Although local Hong Kong students are 1 year older than IS students when they enter university, they have received education for exactly the same number of years, NOT more.
Local students go through 6 years of primary & 7 years of secondary education making a total of 13 years before entering university.
IS students enter university after Year 13 - also receiving 13 years of education.
Therefore HKCEE & UK GCSE should be viewed as the same level, NOT 1 year higher.
Of course, things will be different in the future with the new 334 system.
作者: wisekid2007 時間: 09-9-29 13:57
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作者: WYmom 時間: 09-9-29 15:24
原帖由 mow-mow 於 09-9-29 13:23 發表
Although local Hong Kong students are 1 year older than IS students when they enter university, they have received education for exactly the same number of years, NOT more.
Local students go through 6 ...
Haha, can't understand why you still don't understand? If all kids start school at 3 years old, why HK students enter U one year later than UK, US or Canadian students? They are not just older, they study one more year than others !! So HKCEE is really one year higher than GCSE.
In future, the new HK Diploma's level should equal to GCSE AL!!
Simple Maths!!
[ 本帖最後由 WYmom 於 09-9-29 15:33 編輯 ]
作者: 畢學武 時間: 09-9-29 15:47
又在計年齡,
你有冇看一看課程,
香港教育制度以前跟英国,
中五=O level
中七=A level
大學三年(HKU)
N年前當香港未有太多本地書前是用英國書的,常用的有
Pure Math - Advanced Level Pure Mathematics (Physical Science Texts) (Paperback)
by Clement John Tranter
Physic - Advanced Level Physics (Paperback)
by Michael Nelkon (Author), Philip Parker (Author)
Biology-BIOLOGY: A FUNCTIONAL APPROACH [IMPORT] (Paperback)by M.B.V. ROBERTS (Author)
PLANT AND ANIMAL BIOLOGY: VOLUME I & II. (Hardcover) by AE and N Rees. Vines (Author)
Chemistry-Advanced Level Physical Chemistry (Paperback)
by A. Holderness (Author), J. N. Lazonby (Author)
都是英國書。請恕我不明白如何可以用低程度(GCE A Level)的書去考高程度(HK A Level)的試。
至於港英政府点解要香港學生讀多一年才入U,我就不知了,還請各位有大智慧的有識之士賜教!
原帖由 wisekid2007 於 09-9-29 13:57 發表
YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG!!
On average, local HK students start K1 at 3 and P1 at 6, i.e. 3 years of kindergarten
For IS students, e.g. British system, students start K1 also at 3 but Primary Year 1 at ...
[ 本帖最後由 畢學武 於 09-9-29 15:58 編輯 ]
作者: wisekid2007 時間: 09-9-29 15:56
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作者: WYmom 時間: 09-9-29 16:39
原帖由 畢學武 於 09-9-29 15:47 發表
又在計年齡,
你有冇看一看課程,
香港教育制度以前跟英国,
中五=O level
中七=A level
大學三年(HKU)
N年前當香港未有太多本地書前是用英國書的,常用的有
Pure ...
If you believe that the HKCEE and AL level should equal to UK O & A level and should not be harder, are you indicating that the HK students are in fact "dumber" than their counterparts in other countries as they need to study one more year to take the same level exam before entering U??
作者: 畢學武 時間: 09-9-29 16:58
我相信它們程度一樣,不過題目深淺不同。
我不是說香港學生蠢啲,而是奇怪港英殖民地政府為什麽這樣做。
原帖由 WYmom 於 09-9-29 16:39 發表
If you believe that the HKCEE and AL level should equal to UK O & A level and should not be harder, are you indicating that the HK students are in fact "dumber" than their counterparts in other coun ...
作者: almom 時間: 09-9-29 17:01
原帖由 畢學武 於 09-9-28 13:33 發表
係咪真係咁呢?如果祇計年齡,HKU學士咪=UK master?
Do not only count the number of years people spend in school. You should also consider the content or the curriculum. One extra year in school does not necessarily mean that a person is more advanced.
作者: wisekid2007 時間: 09-9-29 17:09
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作者: 畢學武 時間: 09-9-29 17:18
結論:
1.你是一個好學生,又勤力,又主動。你的老師也非常勤力。
2.我的老師比你的懶惰,因為他們大多依書直說,而我是一個非常聰明甚至是天才的學生,因我可用低程度的書去考高程度的試,又比我過關。
你使我今天很高興,謝謝!
PS: 我不是說本地學校比國際學校好,如果當年我有機會讀國際學校(如果我父母比得起錢)我相信我不知幾開心,人生也完全不同也不定,天曉得!
原帖由 wisekid2007 於 09-9-29 15:56 發表
Do you understand that even using similar textbooks doesn't mean the teaching level as well as the exam questions level will be the same.
I don't know what the current text books used by our secondar ...
作者: almom 時間: 09-9-29 17:30
原帖由 wisekid2007 於 09-9-29 17:09 發表
For students with similar talents and capacities (i.e. in general for those local and IS students in HK), the differences in the outcome are mainly due to the differences in style of education.
I was refering to the discussion of HK vs UK curriculum, whether in secondary school level and university level.
I was merely saying that although it appears that HK students seem to have an extra year of education, it does not necessarily mean that they are more advanced than students in the UK.
And thus HKU would not be the same as masters in the UK.
作者: almom 時間: 09-9-29 17:36
原帖由 畢學武 於 09-9-29 17:18 發表
結論:
1.你是一個好學生,又勤力,又主動。你的老師也非常勤力。
2.我的老師比你的懶惰,因為他們大多依書直說,而我是一個非常聰明甚至是天才的學生,因我可用低程度的書去考高程度的試,又比我過關。
你使我今天很高 ...
Why are you still dragging on the text book thing...?
作者: wisekid2007 時間: 09-9-29 17:39
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作者: wisekid2007 時間: 09-9-29 17:45
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作者: wisekid2007 時間: 09-9-29 17:47
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作者: WYmom 時間: 09-9-29 18:09
原帖由 almom 於 09-9-29 17:30 發表
I was refering to the discussion of HK vs UK curriculum, whether in secondary school level and university level.
I was merely saying that although it appears that HK students seem to have an extra y ...
This is just to clarify the illusion of most people thinking HK local school standard is higher than IS standard when they compare kids of the seem-to-be "same" year. If you have a kid of 5 years old studying in IS Y1, you will understand why we won't expect the kid to learn same thing as a 6-year old kid in P.1 of local school. When kids grow up, they will vary more widely, some can outperform others very far away, no matter in which type of schools.
P.S. Seems that only wisekid2007 got my point of "dumber" HK students!
[ 本帖最後由 WYmom 於 09-9-29 18:11 編輯 ]
作者: 畢學武 時間: 09-9-29 18:23
低程度的書不是你說的,是我在61樓說的,我見你沒意見便以為你同意,對不起。
你真殘忍.祇讓我開心幾分鐘。
或者我要改為
2.我的老師比你的懶惰,因為他們大多依書直說,而我是一個非常好運的學生,因我可用淺的書去考一個深的試,又比我過關。
原帖由 wisekid2007 於 09-9-29 17:39 發表
Sorry I don't think you are 非常聰明甚至是天才的學生. How can you come out such conclusion.
Have I ever said that those textbooks are 低程度的書? I only said that "What we have learnt are much harder ...
[ 本帖最後由 畢學武 於 09-9-29 18:28 編輯 ]
作者: 畢學武 時間: 09-9-29 18:33
因為課程會在教科書上反影出來
原帖由 almom 於 09-9-29 17:36 發表
Why are you still dragging on the text book thing...?
作者: 畢學武 時間: 09-9-29 18:49
對不起.我不是說國際學校比本地學校程度低,我祇是說GCE A Level=HK A Level
如果我說國際學校學生十六歲可有本地學校學生十七歲的學術成就,這不是讚美嗎?
不過有這個情況出現,不是因為本地學校學生蠢,而祗是給從政者政策的扭曲而矣。
原帖由 WYmom 於 09-9-29 18:09 發表
This is just to clarify the illusion of most people thinking HK local school standard is higher than IS standard when they compare kids of the seem-to-be "same" year. If you have a kid of 5 years o ...
作者: almom 時間: 09-9-29 18:52
原帖由 畢學武 於 09-9-29 18:33 發表
因為課程會在教科書上反影出來
No.
Unless the textbook was desiged for the curriculum.
You stated so that HK students did not have their own textbooks. So they had no choice but to use other curriculum textbooks.
The UK textbooks hardly reflect the actual HK curriculum.
[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-9-29 18:54 編輯 ]
作者: almom 時間: 09-9-29 18:55
原帖由 畢學武 於 09-9-29 18:49 發表
對不起.我不是說國際學校比本地學校程度低,我祇是說GCE A Level=HK A Level
GCE A level =\= HK A level.
作者: 畢學武 時間: 09-9-29 19:24
唉!算了吧!
Ｎ年前香港真是跟足英國的,所以用英國書沒所為,現在環境不同,當然不可同日而語。
國際上始终乘認GCE A-Level=HK A-Level,就像同一科目不同試卷,有深有淺. 有難有易,都是入三年際大學入學的標準,我無謂再說了。
原帖由 almom 於 09-9-29 18:55 發表
GCE A level =\= HK A level.
作者: mow-mow 時間: 09-9-29 21:27
Wisekid2007 & WYmom,
I'm afraid I do not buy your logic of including the kindergarten years which is actually not compulsory education and is often termed 'pre-school'.
Following your logic, then how should one count nursery & pre-nursery years?
School proper starts at primary school, ie P1 & Year 1 respectively for the 2 systems.
You can protest all you like, but academic institutes internationally recognise HKCEE as equivalent to GCSE O-levels and NOT higher.
How they are going to view the new HK Diploma though would be interesting.
If as you suggest that they should view it as the same as A levels, then under your logic that HKCEE is 1 year higher than GCSE O-level, HKU degree will also be a higher degree than UK university degrees based on the fact that their graduates spend 4 years rather than 3 in university?!
作者: WYmom 時間: 09-9-30 07:04
原帖由 mow-mow 於 09-9-29 21:27 發表
Wisekid2007 & WYmom,
I'm afraid I do not buy your logic of including the kindergarten years which is actually not compulsory education and is often termed 'pre-school'.
Following your logic, then how ...
I have explained and now you said you don't recognize that studying one more year of kinder is one more year of education and then that's your logic!
You cannot just equate all Y1-13 UK cirriculum to local P.1-F.7 cirriculum, that's my originally point. Kinder education in HK is quite intensive, not just playing around. For example, local kids have already learnt addition and substraction upto 20 or more in K3 at age 6. In UK IS Y.1, kids have finished only K2 at age 5 will learn this, just like local kids in K3. So you cannot just eliminate all pre-school education as education by saying that it is not compulsory while in reality that all kids start kinder at 3 or even at 2 until 6.
If you only talks about official rules, then the official rule for receiving primary education in HK is 6 years old, if I apply the same on UK IS kids, then their Y1(age 5) should not be counted as education as well, so according to your logic, students in UK IS receive 5 years of primary and 7 years of secondary education, while students in HK local schools receive 6 years of primary and 7 years of secondary education, is it so obvious that there is one year more?
For IS of US/ Canadian/Singapore system, students start primary at age 6, but they only study 6 years in secondary, but local HK students study 7 years in secondary, so it is so obvious that HK students receive one more year of education! Can't you get it?
I just tell that it is the fact that HKCEE/HKAL is one year level higher than GCSE O/AL, if you don't buy this, you can take a look at the exams. I know that internationally they are equally recognised as secondary/Pre-U graduation qualification, but it does not mean that the standard should be equalised. It is really more favourable for HK students to take GCSE as they HAVE really received one more year of education even you deny it. It is simply the fact!
I can only say that in the past HK students did learn more difficult syllubus than overseas students, their standard SHOULD be higher, but whether they are REALLY higher than others or not is another issue. Now, with the new 334 system, they are par with the overseas students and their standard is to be assessed.
For University education, it is different from kinder to secondary, it is more a specialised career-oriented education rather than the basic education for everyone. Some HK students take 4 or even 5 years of U education instead of 3, all depends on which profession.
[ 本帖最後由 WYmom 於 09-9-30 09:04 編輯 ]
作者: 畢學武 時間: 09-9-30 15:29
忍不著再回應,
為什麼要說到美加星加坡呢?美加同英國學制完全不同,星加坡也不是單纯六年制中學(套用智慧小子的說話-做多点research 吧)。
又計一計年期,GCE yr10選科 HKCE F4選科,大家都有四年時來考A-Level,雖然本地學生比國際學校學生年紀大一年,但總沒相差太遠吧!
甚麽是正規教育應該是當地政府話事,所以我不會說香港K3是正規或英國Y1不是正規教育的話。現實是兩地都是十三年Pre-U正規教育,理得你是由一歲或十歲開始,香港K3程度深是個別學校的問題,理論上學生一年幼稚園也可不上。
很多人都說GCEAL比HKAL易考,原來是事實,
http://www.britishcouncil.org/eumd-hongkong-naric_briefing_note_29nov07.pdf
做報告的NARIC都乘認GCEALevel boardly comparable to HKAL
Quoted:
'The subjects are considered broadly comparable in terms of volume of study at both levels. In Hong Kong at the advanced level, students usually take 4-5 subjects. This is higher than the average number of A levels being taken in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but a review of volume indicates the syllabus and examinations are closer to A levels than AS levels. Therefore, it is legitimate to state that the HKALE is broadly comparable to a GCE A level. UK NARIC is adapting its comparison advice accordingly.'
我都不明白說GCE AL=HKAL為什麼會使一些國際學校家長有這麽大的反感,讀少一年,年輕一歲獲得相同學術成就不是很好嗎?有什麽問題呢?
我得乘認讀國際學校比本地學校好,可以愉快學習,少功課,壓力細,又比較容易入世界一流大學。而本地學校學生多功課,壓力大,又要大一年爭入二.三流大學,更常常被人話高分低能(對不起,智慧小子!),不過在這個家庭總收入平均每月得萬多兩萬元的社會,時常說國際學校比本地學校好而又不提出解決方法,衹會使人想起晉惠帝何不食肉糜的故事!
算了,真的不說了,算我和所有三年制大學的入學政策都錯了吧!(真的認錯了,不要再插我吧,求求你們!)
PS. Al媽,我沒有說過HKU學士=UK碩士。
[ 本帖最後由 畢學武 於 09-9-30 23:04 編輯 ]
作者: mattsmum 時間: 09-9-30 18:55 標題: 回覆 1# 畢學武 的文章
hk A level C = gce A/B, that was my days in the 80s too.
作者: papa_pop 時間: 09-9-30 19:10
Your question is valid and it really concerns top universities like Oxbridge. Apart from straight-A*s in GCSE, they set conditional offers rather high.
My observation is that it's comparatively easier to score As at UK exams than in HK. Take a look at their respective percentages (some top high schools are talking about 90%+ scoring A+ at GCSE while even the very best HK schools can only get about 2.2 As out of 9 subjects on average). Some UK schools, not the top 20, have dozen of students getting 10A*+. IF one really wishes to enrol in Oxbridge, he/she should go to the UK for high school and take the GCSE (not IGCSE) and they stand a better chance.
Mind you that ONLY the really creme de la creme of HK students (8As+ in HKCEE) stands a chance for Oxbridge. How many are there in a year and how many of them eyeing only Oxbridge?
Anyway, HKCEE will be a passe but I doubt the percentage of getting A in the new diploma exam would be any easier.
原帖由 BabaTed 於 09-9-26 02:20 發表
elmostoney & other parents,
I have a question regarding 'UK中五會考 is a lot easier than HKCEE' from a long time ago, and would seek the comments from parents here.
My hubby has few cousins studyin ...
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