教育王國
標題: RTHK 19/Feb 鏗鏘集 - 國際學校誰讀? [打印本頁]
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-20 03:54 標題: RTHK 19/Feb 鏗鏘集 - 國際學校誰讀?
Can watch online at the following page:-
http://programme.rthk.org.hk/rthk/tv/programme.php?name=hkcc&d=2012-02-19&p=858&e=&m=episode
國際學校誰讀?
近年，無論本地或非本地人士，對國際學校學額的需求，有不斷增加趨勢，影響到外來專才因子女敎育，而產生去留問題!
1998年，政府的駐校外籍英語老師計劃，吸引了一班來自不同國籍的老師來港敎學，增加了本地學童語文及接觸外國文化的機會。
今日，他們的子女，面對同本地學童競爭入讀國際學校學位；
究竟是學位不足？國際學校收生政策問題？抑或敎育政策的朝令夕改，導致本地家長為子女選擇國際學校，而令近年輪侯學位的情況變本加厲？
近年，不同商會亦關注到商界同時面對難於吸引專才留港發展，究竟
香港所謂國際化是否名符其實？
編導：鄺翠娟
作者: judymama 時間: 12-2-20 08:35 標題: 回覆：RTHK 19/Feb 鏗鏘集 - 國際學校誰讀?
睇左，佢地未必afford 到IS,local school又唔收
作者: mrshoho 時間: 12-2-20 09:23
well... can only say they aren't lucky enough....
作者: mrshoho 時間: 12-2-20 09:33
I think this Amanda is rude, what made her think she doesn't need to spend time and energy to search schools for her girl?
作者: yaulinda 時間: 12-2-20 10:49 標題: 回覆：RTHK 19/Feb 鏗鏘集 - 國際學校誰讀?
看了，只可說：你估我哋明明中國人，好恨變香蕉咩！咪多謝歷任教育局長之功勞囉:;pppp:
作者: mrshoho 時間: 12-2-20 10:57 標題: 引用：看了，只可說：你估我哋明明中國人，好恨變
原帖由 yaulinda 於 12-02-20 發表
看了，只可說：你估我哋明明中國人，好恨變香蕉咩！咪多謝歷任教育局長之功勞囉
...
作者: mikeivybb 時間: 12-2-20 11:15
自己社會, 各取所需, 我們為子女選擇自己有能力負擔,較好的道路有錯嗎? 自己唔幫小朋友選, 唔通靠政府咩? 好似我地霸晒佢地d位咁.
社會現實是有能者居之, 我們父母都經過一番報名努力, 一輪面試壓力, 小朋友都要經常面試才可取得學位.
如果本地學制係好, d有錢大陸人都推晒d仔女來讀啦, 但反之佢地而家都來爭國際學校學位呀! 咁我地又可以點?
作者: oooray 時間: 12-2-20 11:28
政府電台唔敢掂個重點:
本地制度點解咁失敗?
點解唔訪問吓d家長點解政府/津貼唔使$都唔去讀?
點解唔訪問吓陳維安身為負責教育o既高級官員點解唔身體力行叫自己d小朋友支持吓local school?
但我諗就算導演有GUTS呢d主題係唔會出度街...
作者: bbirene 時間: 12-2-20 11:36
本帖最後由 bbirene 於 12-2-20 11:42 編輯
yes I think they are very poor but they are already in cat 1 who has higher priority in the interview chance. Those in cat 2 and paid 2-year school fees in ESF kindergarten couldn't get the interview chance are more poorer than them.
作者: bbdmami 時間: 12-2-20 11:44 標題: 回覆：RTHK 19/Feb 鏗鏘集 - 國際學校誰讀?
What a pity that parents has chosen to trust the new international schools, those like RC that has only established for a few years, than to trust the HK education system.
作者: Mighty 時間: 12-2-20 12:15
回復 bbdmami 的帖子
Well Hong Kong Education system is long established but it has been changing and the whole system is going downhill. RC is not a complete 'new' school. It had its history before it is RC today.
作者: crystalpui 時間: 12-2-20 12:24
我都唔想一個月俾幾千蚊學費
我都好想個女用學卷, 12年免費教育
但,不得我不放棄
唔係名校
功課都唔見會少
壓力一樣咁大....
政府可以幫下我嗎
我都好想生多一個,.,......
作者: bbdmami 時間: 12-2-20 14:06 標題: 回覆：Mighty 的帖子
I agree to your comments completely.
作者: judymama 時間: 12-2-20 14:07 標題: 引用：我都唔想一個月俾幾千蚊學費我都好想個女用
原帖由 crystalpui 於 12-02-20 發表
我都唔想一個月俾幾千蚊學費
我都好想個女用學卷, 12年免費教育
但,不得我不放棄
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-2-20 14:13
oooray 發表於 12-2-20 11:28 
政府電台唔敢掂個重點:
本地制度點解咁失敗?
點解唔訪問吓d家長點解政府/津貼唔使$都唔去讀?
作者: vinvillalee 時間: 12-2-20 14:53
我諗佢地都係報ESF 的學校。因為唔需買債券。其實大部份外資公司都很少幫外籍僱員的子女俾埋債券費用，除非好高層la! 再者我都唔明班强國人，其實國內有國際學校，點解一定要在香港讀？
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-20 15:14
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 12-2-20 15:22 編輯
oooray 發表於 12-2-20 11:28
政府電台唔敢掂個重點:
本地制度點解咁失敗?
點解唔訪問吓d家長點解政府/津貼唔使$都唔去讀?
I agree, the emphasis should not be placed on why some foreigners find it difficult to send their kids to international schools, it should explore why local parents are also eager to do the same, but of course RTHK won't dare to open that can of worms.
In any case, those foreign kids are NOT disadvantaged when competing with local kids for places in international schools, quite the contrary, they have advantages over local kids in that many international schools give them priority. The programme tries to suggest that foreign kids are unfairly displaced by local kids, which is not true at all.
If a foreign kid fails to gain admission to an international school despite the advantages and priorities which he/she already enjoys, then the parent ought to seriously examine the ability of the child, instead of trying to blame it on "the Chinese couple next door" like that British woman in the programme.
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-2-20 15:23
回復 vinvillalee 的帖子
In mainland, most well off people's money are questionable..... If possible, send their family out of mainland, if case anything happen, the rest are safe in HK with sufficient cash..... Why HK? same time zone, easy to travel during week end to meet the family in HK....
Not so rich will opt for "雙非".......
作者: nintendo 時間: 12-2-20 15:50
本帖最後由 nintendo 於 12-2-20 15:54 編輯
FattyDaddy 發表於 12-2-20 15:14
If a foreign kid fails to gain admission to an international school despite the advantages and priorities which he/she already enjoys, then the parent ought to seriously examine the ability of the child, instead of trying to blame it on "the Chinese couple next door" like that British woman in the programme.
Anyone can be a Cat One including 100% local family.
The woman said that her kid was not even offered a chance to interview.
I think this year a lot of parents said that there are no interview for even Cat One.
So it is not the issue of the ability of the child.
作者: nintendo 時間: 12-2-20 15:58
vinvillalee 發表於 12-2-20 14:53
再者我都唔明班强國人，其實國內有國際學校，點解一定要在香港讀？
I do not see that many mainland children in international schools. As far as I know, only YX and IXX are known to have taken more children with mainland connections.
The percentage of mainland children in other international schools are still quite low. So I do not see them as a main group competiting for places.
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-20 16:04
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 12-2-20 16:08 編輯
nintendo 發表於 12-2-20 15:50
The Cat system oes not put expat in any advantageous position.
Anyone can be a Cat One including 100 ...
Cat One has priority over Cat Two, and most local kids are Cat Two.
It is true that some local kids are Cat One. There are at least 1 million Hongkongers who have foreign citizenship, so it is not unusual for them to bring up their kids as Cat One, but then it would be one foreign citizen competing with another foreign citizen on equal grounds.
The point I'm trying to make is there are no unfair practices, and a foreigner putting the blame on "that Chinese couple next door" is just plain rude and arrogant.
作者: nintendo 時間: 12-2-20 16:49
本帖最後由 nintendo 於 12-2-20 16:55 編輯
You have twisted what I said.
I never said anything about unfair practices.
I was just trying to say it was unfair for you to say the kid did not get a place at ESF because of her ability.
I do not see the mother blaming the other parent but just venting.
I would say that if the chance to interview was by random draw, anyonw that did not get a chance would feel bad.
But, well, never mind. Not exactly my business so may be I should have shut up.
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-20 17:15
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 12-2-20 21:10 編輯
nintendo 發表於 12-2-20 16:49
I never said anything about unfair practices.
I was just trying to say it was unfair for you to say the kid did not get a place at ESF because of her ability. ...
OK, the foreign kid competed without any disadvantages among local kids and failed, fair and square, and lets leave it at that.
There are many possible reasons for not getting an interview besides simply having bad luck in a random draw, may be the kid was a bully in kindergarten. Whatever the reason, your guess is as good as mine {:1_1:}
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-2-21 02:08
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作者: Mighty 時間: 12-2-21 07:45
Anyone, regardless nationalities, can go to JIS if there are vacancies. As far as I know there is a waiting list too. It is in Tai Po and most of the expats live in Hong Kong Island. They cant send their kids there, can they?
作者: flashingcat 時間: 12-2-21 08:01
回復 madscientist 的帖子
Not at all. JIS international section, japanese kid will not have an advanage, there is only one class per grade, meaning 22 kids in reception and 25 kids from P1. Their priority is: Pure foreigners, Mixed then Japanese. As more and more foreigners are living in MOS area now, this year in the reception class, they accepted almost all foreigners, only one japanese kid (his daddy is working for JIS japanese section). Speaking of JIS Japanese section, yes, japanese can always join as long as you have a japan passport.
Most foreigners are living on Island or around kowloon station, their class starts at 7:50am, even my friend need to send his daughter on the school bus before 7, speaking like 6:30am from hunghom area.
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-2-21 09:16 標題: 引用：Anyone,+regardless+nationalities,+can+go
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作者: hhy2007 時間: 12-2-21 09:31
本帖最後由 hhy2007 於 12-2-21 13:45 編輯
Talking about placing a quota on local students, most of international schools in Asian countries including the mainland China are only allowed to admit 20-25% local students who are not foreign citizens. That's the reason why many international schools in China were bargaining with Chinese government during 2008 financial crisis to try to increase the percentage allocated for local Chinese students.
作者: flashingcat 時間: 12-2-21 10:42
回復 madscientist 的帖子
PM you, pls check
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-21 11:32
hhy2007 發表於 12-2-21 09:31
Talking about placing a quota on local students, most of international schools in Asian countries in ...
If a quota is to work it must be placed on racial grounds, e.g. not only must the child be a Canadian citizen but he/she must also be white, but this is straying into a minefield.
作者: mrshoho 時間: 12-2-21 11:34 標題: 回覆：RTHK 19/Feb 鏗鏘集 - 國際學校誰讀?
They can't do that, that is racism.
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-21 11:54
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 12-2-21 14:01 編輯
mrshoho 發表於 12-2-21 11:34
They can't do that, that is racism.
Exactly!
People just have to face the fact that Hongkong is a special case. Due to historical reasons A LOT of Hongkongers are also foreign citizens, I would say at least 1 million (15% of the population) possess foreign citizenship and there is no other solution but to increase the number and capacity of international schools.
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-2-21 12:11
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作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-21 12:24
madscientist 發表於 12-2-21 12:11
the current advantage given to Foreign kids are already quite large
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-2-21 13:19
Even IS is not my cup of tea, I learnt some ideas from the thread and get deeper about the problem behind the shortage of Places.
Great discussion.
作者: WYmom 時間: 12-2-21 15:02
FattyDaddy 發表於 12-2-21 11:54
Exactly!
People just have to face the fact that Hongkong is a special case. Due to historical reas ...
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-21 15:59
WYmom 發表於 12-2-21 15:02
Agree, many HK people immigrated to other countries and return back...
In most parts of the world, international schools serve just one purpose, to make it easier for foreigners to bring their families along, thereby encourages them to stay longer and contribute more. But in Hongkong, international schools serve another purpose in addition to this, which is to provide Hongkongers who have foreign citizenship the chance of giving their children an overseas style education without leaving, and this additional purpose is as important if not more important than the first, given the vast number of Hongkongers who are also foreign citizens.
Of course, there is a third purpose which some people might find disagreeable. There are many local Hongkongers who have no confidence in the way Hongkong's education system is heading and want to opt out of local schools. Although these people might not have as valid a claim to international schools as foreigners and foreign Hongkongers, they should not be treated with contempt.
In most cases, foreign children are competing for places in international schools against children of foreign Hongkongers, on an equal footing without any unfairness, and not so much against children of local Hongkongers who are always at a disadvantage because their English abilities are likely to be weaker.
作者: xx33 時間: 12-2-24 03:07
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作者: xx33 時間: 12-2-24 03:26
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作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-24 04:06
xx33 發表於 12-2-24 03:26
不可不知, 強國人講國語, 所以係CAT1!!!!!
Category One
Children who speak English as a first or alternative language but do not speak Cantonese and/or read and write Chinese characters.
http://www.esf.edu.hk/our-schools/admissions-criteria/admissions-policy-and-procedures
作者: CSJ安樂窩 時間: 12-2-24 08:36
本帖最後由 CSJ安樂窩 於 12-2-24 08:38 編輯
FattyDaddy 發表於 12-2-24 04:06
Actually this is not true, although they cannot speak Cantonese, but they can read/write Chinese cha ...
The fact is that it is true. Those of them who went to IS kindy, they cannot read/write Chinese. Being a non-Cantonese speaker, they are just the same as the foreign kids and classified as Cat. 1.
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-24 09:05
CSJ安樂窩 發表於 12-2-24 08:36
The fact is that it is true. Those of them who went to IS kindy, they cannot read/write Chinese. ...
作者: CSJ安樂窩 時間: 12-2-24 09:24
FattyDaddy 發表於 12-2-24 09:05
Yes, if the kid was purposely raised to be Cat 1. If Hongkongers can do it, mainland Chinese can als ...
I guess for Mainlanders, they don't really need to purposely raised their kids to become Cat. 1 as they can still keep their mother tongue but for Hongkongers, they need to do a lot more to be classified as Cat. 1
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-24 09:37
CSJ安樂窩 發表於 12-2-24 09:24
I guess for Mainlanders, they don't really need to purposely raised their kids to become Cat. 1 as ...
So far I think only a small minority of mainland immigrants are targeting international schools, if we browse the local school forums here we read a lot more about them.
作者: bbirene 時間: 12-2-24 13:10
本帖最後由 bbirene 於 12-2-24 13:11 編輯
As I know, the mainland kids are regarded as cat 1 as they don't know Cantonese.
作者: mikeivybb 時間: 12-2-25 10:04
Totally correct, they are cat 1 bec they can't speak cantonese, but in fact, our kid can do it too bec we can talk eng with them from they born.
But although we did this, we still cat 2.
Not fair!!!!!!!!!!
作者: Mighty 時間: 12-2-25 10:43
..... ......
作者: highfive 時間: 12-2-25 10:59
本帖最後由 highfive 於 12-2-25 11:00 編輯
I think the way ESF classifies applicants into the 2 categories isn't very accurate, at all. A couple of years ago our son were offered an interview and eventually offered a place (after being on the waitlist for a couple of months) even though that year the principal of CWBS (in our catchment zone) said that they were oversubscribed by CAT1 applicants, let alone CAT2's.
In our application we indicated that our son was most fluent with English, but we also clearly indicated that both parents spoke Cantonese and the child knew Cantonese too (though not very well). I suspect we were still being categorized as CAT1, hence the interview opportunity. We were definitely very happy for the opportunity but at the same time felt puzzled and kind of sorry for the "real" CAT1 applicants. In the end we didn't accept the offer though as our child was already studying at another IS when the offer was made.
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-2-25 12:17
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作者: xx33 時間: 12-2-25 17:21
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作者: xx33 時間: 12-2-25 17:27
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作者: madscientist 時間: 12-2-26 00:40
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作者: josechan 時間: 12-2-26 01:10
madscientist 發表於 12-2-25 12:17
ESF is only a number of schools in Hong Kong. There are other ISes and DSS, etc. Not qualifying f ...
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-2-26 01:23
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作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-26 01:29
josechan 發表於 12-2-26 01:10
Very true. I prefer paying effort to apply for IS with a good balance of Chinese and English, rather ...
(1) They don't categorize and prioritize students into Cat 1 and 2 so no need to refrain from Cantonese
(2) They don't have catchment areas so anyone living anywhere can apply
(3) Their curriculum have more Chinese contents than the regular ESF schools
(4) They still have the ESF brand name
I do think ESF is very clever, at least they have done some serious market research {:1_1:}
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-2-26 02:08
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作者: madscientist 時間: 12-2-26 02:17
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作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-26 02:29
madscientist 發表於 12-2-26 02:08
ESF does not need market research to conclude the importance of Chinese. BTW, Chinese is not a co ...
What I meant was they researched into what some Hongkong parents' inclinations are, e.g. some may not want to refrain from Cantonese etc.
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-26 02:39
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 12-2-26 02:42 編輯
madscientist 發表於 12-2-26 02:17
The 2 PIS schools are PIS because they have no chance of getting more funding from the government f ...
Hehe, I doubt if ESF's reasoning is as complicated as what you've described.
Allow me to quote your words ...
I am against Hong Kong parents shielding children from Cantonese simply because they want to be cat 1. I think it does not make sense.
If I were ESF management and I want your business, wouldn't I remove the categorization (i.e. the "no Cantonese" restriction) in some schools to attract parents like you? {:1_1:}
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-2-26 02:39
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作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-26 02:53
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 12-2-26 04:10 編輯
madscientist 發表於 12-2-26 02:39
Why would ESF care about HK parents' wishes or their inclinations when their ESF schools are all overwhelmed by Cat 1s?
You're right, the regular ESF schools don't care and so they stick to their categorization system, but there is no reason why ESF should not want to cater for the wider Cantonese speaking public with their PIS schools {:1_1:}
Why not? Branding is very common in marketing, that's why we see Dolce&Gabanna and D&G, same company, different product lines targeting different customers.
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-2-26 04:11
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作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-2-26 05:18
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 12-2-26 05:19 編輯
madscientist 發表於 12-2-26 04:11
The reason ESF created two PIS was that they did not get the funding ...
Once again you're right, ESF did not get the funding so if they create new schools they must be PIS, hence ESF had 2 choices:-
(1) Do nothing. Don't create new schools because PIS must be run differently and ESF is just not interested.
(2) Create new PIS schools and live with the troubles of maintaining 2 systems.
They opted for (2). Mind you, they were not forced into that choice, if they had no interest in serving the wider Cantonese speaking public they could have chosen (1) and did nothing.
You can of course say ESF chose (2) simply because they wanted expansion and money and the needs of Cantonese speaking Hongkongers never crossed their minds, I guess I don't have the same amount of skepticism {:1_1:}
作者: baby8 時間: 12-2-27 20:27
I found foreign parents put their child in local kindergarten and primary school in order to learn Mandarin. (KCPS in North Point). I don't think there is any problem for young child to learn two language at the same time. We put our children in IS is that it can provide a better English environment for them to learn a second language. If those foreign parents have already provided an English environment at home why refuse to put their children in local Chinese environment ? Foreigners that can speak fluent Chinese in future has greater advantage than Chinese that can speak fluent English (simply supply/demand I think)
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-2-27 21:35 標題: 引用：I+found+foreign+parents+put+their+child+
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作者: annie40 時間: 12-2-29 14:49
回復 madscientist 的帖子
有个现象未知大家有否留意, IS 中学生大部分皮光肉滑, 好少有pimple. 无论几忙, 个样都永远精神和愉快.
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