教育王國

標題: 11 Mar The Pearl Report: International School [打印本頁]

作者: manstap 時間: 13-3-12 23:04 標題: 11 Mar The Pearl Report: International School

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作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-3-13 00:16

回復 manstap 的帖子

Fascinating. Didn't realize ESF admits half its applicants. Isn't that better than many other schools?

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 00:21 標題: 回覆：manstap 的帖子

Short but elaborate program. That government education officer also send kids to international is so sarcastic, ironic to those believe in LS.....

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-3-13 01:36

Do you guys kind of lost some confidence in Harrow after watching the program?

作者: ILBC 時間: 13-3-13 08:46

shadeslayer 發表於 13-3-13 01:36
Do you guys kind of lost some confidence in Harrow after watching the program?

Before that, I would never look into anything about Harrow or other top tier IS because I know we're not in that level (in terms of family background, English proficiency, money, academic achievements...) But now, I realize that sometimes it's just a game of connection &

作者: Mighty 時間: 13-3-13 10:45

我係「小学雑談｣個邊都講個、有銭満能、、、但係個弟弟点追？

作者: cppc20 時間: 13-3-13 11:11

回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子

人在江湖,身不由己

作者: WYmom 時間: 13-3-13 11:25

Maybe local middle class parents need more schools like CKY rather than real international schools - bilingual with IB programs and more affordable school fees. Expats' kids really need to take IS where English is the first language.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-3-13 11:35

The program did not leave viewers with a good impression of Harrow because of the interview with the University lecturer and her sons. Nothing to do with other IS, right? We cannot have a blanket statement saying top tier IS are like that.

To be fair, a new school needs at least 10 years to build its quality and reputation. Harrow included.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-3-13 11:42 標題: 引用：我係「小学雑談｣個邊都講個、有銭満能、、

原帖由 Mighty 於 13-03-13 發表
我係「小学雑談｣個邊都講個、有銭満能、、、但係個弟弟点追？

我係「小学雑談｣個邊都講個、有銭満能、、、但係個弟弟点追？

Xxxxxx

又唔好咁講，莫欺少年窮。不過哈囉收生真係好鬆。

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 11:51 標題: 回覆：shadeslayer 的帖子

Money, connections are always important, no matter you want your kid to get in a good school, find a decent job etc.
My concern is how the government subsidize Harrow, HK academy and other school while unfairly letting IMS helplessly finding campus, cutting ESF subvention?!
I can't see the logic of selective subsidiary !

作者: Mighty 時間: 13-3-13 11:55

当然、他会進歩。　我只是用他現在的表現去評価。　如果ＥＳＦ、就応該ＮＧ会収。　我以為ＨＡＲＲＯＷ収生要求会高Ｄ．　同埋以這小朋友的家庭背景、応該可以培養到小朋友Ｄ英文好Ｄ．　ＩＮＴＥＲＶＩＥＷ　Ｄ時間非常短、或許我誤解了。

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-3-13 12:15 標題: 引用：当然、他会進歩。　我只是用他現在的表現去

原帖由 Mighty 於 13-03-13 發表
当然、他会進歩。　我只是用他現在的表現去評価。　如果ＥＳＦ、就応該ＮＧ会収。　我以為ＨＡＲＲＯＷ収生 ...

哈囉如何能忽然收千幾尖子？比十年它罷。

作者: Miamama818 時間: 13-3-13 12:51 標題: 回覆：WYmom 的帖子

agree!

作者: Miamama818 時間: 13-3-13 12:53 標題: 回覆：Miamama818 的帖子

I mean I agree with WYmom

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-3-13 13:03 標題: 引用：Money,+connections+are+always+important,

原帖由 Shrimpiggy 於 13-03-13 發表
Money, connections are always important, no matter you want your kid to get in a good school, find a ...

From what I heard from the program, I can't say i see something unfair or sign of favoritism.

IMS were in the bid for land for an IS but they lost to SIS and GSIS. They will be allowed to bid again. More famous schools like Kellet got their permanent site not long ago.

Harrow, HK academy, Kellet they all receive benefits from government on land rental and interest free loan. Other IS receive similar treatment, what is the problem?

作者: caa 時間: 13-3-13 13:51

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ESF also got the lands from government otherwise where and how did it get its many school campuses? While all other international schools are not getting subsidies from government on school fees and have to charge parents way more than $10k a month, government now tries to cut ESF's subsidies. How unfair is it?

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 14:54 標題: 回覆：caa 的帖子

That's why the government should stop all kind of subvention or Subsidiary for all IS. Rich people pay more tax, who can afford IS doesn't mind ESF has 20% tuition fee rise.

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 15:02 標題: 回覆：caa 的帖子

I should say, land is another issue. If the government think HK should have enough IS placements to attract expat to work in home to keep hk competitive, land is the max that the government should provide. Thats what the HKIS staffs said in the interview to the parents that the government has not confirmed the place for the lower primary campus rebuilt. It is the same as Island School of ESF and IMS as mentioned in the program.

作者: ILBC 時間: 13-3-13 15:33

shadeslayer 發表於 13-3-13 11:35
The program did not leave viewers with a good impression of Harrow because of the interview with the ...

請別誤會！我不是懷疑Harrow或其他IS的收生標準或學生素質，而我亦自知不是那級數。只是感慨當我們這些小時候是基層的靠自己捱出頭來到現在的所謂中產，只是想小朋友入合適(不是神級)的學校(無論本地/國際)都艱辛非常！

作者: clubmed 時間: 13-3-13 17:06 標題: 回覆：11 Mar The Pearl Report: International School

說那小孩子英語不好, 應歸咎他以前上的本地小學還是哈羅? 我不知道. 但在訪問片斷中讓我感覺到那小孩很乖很純, 而且他在哈羅上學得很開心.

作者: civl_fox 時間: 13-3-13 17:22

Shrimpiggy 發表於 13-3-13 14:54
That's why the government should stop all kind of subvention or Subsidiary for all IS. Rich people p ...

There is no doubt the government have beenfavoring the esf over other ISs. But if you look at the demand for IS placesfrom LOCAL PARENTS, I think a responsible government should expand the esf model and make IS moreaffordable to LOCAL PARENTS? Bearing in mind those parents who send their kidsto ISs also give up the education benefit from the government. Many of them Ibelieve are not millionaires but parents who are totally disappointed with thelocal education system. I'm a advocate of the education voucher system. Thegovernment can take away all subventions, subsidies and just give the money tothe parents and let them make the choice for their kids. I wonder how many schoolsadopting the local curriculum with the traditional exam oriented teaching style will survive if that happen.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-3-13 17:42 標題: 引用：Quote:Shrimpiggy+發表於+13-3-13+14:54+Th

原帖由 civl_fox 於 13-03-13 發表
There is no doubt the government have beenfavoring the esf over other ISs. But if you look at the de ...

The government has been making the IS model more accessible to HK residents, it is called DSS schools.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-3-13 17:53 標題: 引用：說那小孩子英語不好,+應歸咎他以前上的本地

原帖由 clubmed 於 13-03-13 發表
說那小孩子英語不好, 應歸咎他以前上的本地小學還是哈羅? 我不知道. 但在訪問片斷中讓我感覺到那小孩很乖很 ...

As Mighty pointed out, I don't believe this level of English is acceptable to ESF or many other IS in HK. Meaning Harrow has NOT been very selective in their applicants and the quality of their students is called into question. This may be a bad sample but it does not do the school any good.

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 18:16 標題: 回覆：civl_fox 的帖子

Why local parents choose IS? Most of us prefer IS curriculum than LS. It is just a simple question that if you can afford to own a car, the government should not subsidiary you, there are many public transportation here in place. BUT, if the public transportation are so inefficient and problematic, the government should improve it instead of subsidizing people to buy a car.

作者: hkparent 時間: 13-3-13 18:25

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I think it's admission standard is not loose but too high, for we parents. It's more difficult to earn that money to gain entry to the school and sustain than training up a kid's interview performance. I don't think it will be difficult for the kid to catch up when he's immersed in that English environment.

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 18:26 標題: 回覆：shadeslayer 的帖子

All new schools have to face prolong teething problem. ISF is very popular but their IB and college placements so far are disappointing my parents. I think both schools need more time to adjust in order to deliver upon their potential.十年樹林，百年樹人。

作者: iamfine 時間: 13-3-13 18:56

The University and Careers Office of ISF has just released an update on university offers for its 2nd cohort. The 20 odd students have secured some 80 offers, including conditional offers from HKU, HKUST, Durham, School of Oriental & African Studies, St.Andrew, Warwick, UCL, Bath, Edinburgh... and unconditional offers from Brown, Emory, NYU, Santa Clara Boston, Syracuse, School of Visual Art and the most prestigious design school, California College of the Arts...

Does it sound bad?

作者: Maoku 時間: 13-3-13 18:58 標題: 引用：Quote:Shrimpiggy+發表於+13-3-13+14:54+Th

原帖由 civl_fox 於 13-03-13 發表
There is no doubt the government have beenfavoring the esf over other ISs. But if you look at the de ...

Cannot agree more. Give us back that entitlement that each kids should have and empower the parents in making the choice through voucher.

作者: iamfine 時間: 13-3-13 19:07

本帖最後由 iamfine 於 13-3-13 19:09 編輯

And of course, ISF cares about Chinese and doesn't buy the defeatist view (which sadly is too common in HK) that students have to give up Chinese to learn good English. As an ISF parent, I for one won't sacrifice Chinese language and culture for a few IBDP points. Last year, over 80% of ISF's students graduated with a bilingual diploma. Name another school that manages to get a result close to that.

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 19:15 標題: 回覆：civl_fox 的帖子

I can't see how voucher system will benefit us. If we all have voucher in hand, it will make the schools go to two extremes. High end one will only rise their tuition fee to offset the voucher as those are paying the old fee do not matter with the adjustment. However, there will be another extreme of schools those deliver so called IS but charging just an affordable marginally higher than the voucher that parents willing to pay the extra. And the poverty can't afford the above two tier of school will stay in the problematic LS system which might have even lower budget to survive....

作者: iamfine 時間: 13-3-13 19:18

本帖最後由 iamfine 於 13-3-13 19:22 編輯

I for one tend to think that ISF is in a way more open than some international schools. At ISF, the school will give full support to students who want to do a group six subject (music, visual art, theatrical art). Some schools (you know who they are) will ask their students to choose another humanity/science subject, to play safe for better IB scores. Some schools (again, you know who they are) will strongly advise their 100% local Chinese students not to choose Chinese language A, for fear that they may bring down the overall IB scores. Not at ISF - students' own preference always comes first.

And, what is "international"? Is an open-minded Chinese who swims in the sea of cultures any less "international" than someone who for his own ignorance chooses to rule out Chinese culture as part of international culture?

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-3-13 20:33 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+iamfine+於+13-3-13+19:22+編

原帖由 iamfine 於 13-03-13 發表
本帖最後由 iamfine 於 13-3-13 19:22 編輯

I for one tend to think that ISF is in a way more open t ...

Secondary schools have to prepare students for Universities, grades do count.

Of course Chinese is important but does it have to be the overriding criterion? Chinese should not be more important than all other factors of the schools, right?

Give new schools time to prove themselves, Harrow and ISF included. Ten or 15 years is not a lot of time in the development of a school.

By the way, Bilingual diploma is a good personal challenge, but they do not have any advantage in competing for a good university place.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-3-13 20:40 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+iamfine+於+13-3-13+19:22+編

原帖由 iamfine 於 13-03-13 發表
本帖最後由 iamfine 於 13-3-13 19:22 編輯

I for one tend to think that ISF is in a way more open t ...

Apart from Harrow, DBIS and Kellet, which IS in HK can be described as "ruling out" Chinese? I might have implied that Harrow, DBIS and Kellet can be called ruling out Chinese, but fact is I am not sure. They seem to put less emphasis on Chinese but can we call them ruling out Chinese?

作者: poonseelai 時間: 13-3-13 20:55

shadeslayer 發表於 13-3-13 20:33
Secondary schools have to prepare students for Universities, grades do count.

Of course Chinese is ...

With more and more students taking Chinese subject, some universities become skeptical about a Chinese student taking Chinese B, which is supposed to be the 2nd language, as a "tactic " to boost the overall IB grade. I heard a case where a HK student was specifically being asked by a university in HK during the interview why he took Chinese B instead of A. That's why my daughters' school plans to have all students take Chinese A, standard level. Taking Chinese A, high level would be too hard for most students and it also means that one will be competing with Mainland Chinese students.

作者: poonseelai 時間: 13-3-13 20:57

poonseelai 發表於 13-3-13 20:55
With more and more students taking Chinese subject, some universities become skeptical about a Chin ...

I mean plans to take at lease Chinese A, standard level. No doubt some students are capable to do the high level one.

作者: tingtingting 時間: 13-3-13 21:32 標題: 回覆：11 Mar The Pearl Report: International School

Probably that's why a few students at my son's school are considering Latin at ab initio level. I guess Chinese A is too difficult for them and they don't want to be labelled as one of those who take the easy way out.

作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-3-13 21:52

Agree with WYMom. HK need to find a solution for English speaking families. Chinese families can always go to local schools. It may not be their preference but at least they have that options. It really is unfair to expat families that they cannot find a spot in an IS.

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 22:23 標題: 回覆：HKTHK 的帖子

Just curious how UK, US treat the expat's kids. is it because English is widely accepted, and the expat to work in those countries must have good standard of english, no one complains about the language barrier for their kids adapt to those countries LS. Why the expat come to work in hk, surely we welcome them but why they choose HK not Oz, nz, or Latin America ? Hk is problematic in Cost of living, pollution, language barrier, yes, all these factors matters when they should have considered before they come to HK!

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 22:29 標題: 回覆：Shrimpiggy 的帖子

Also, local parents also have the right to choose IS if the kids are fluent in English and financially capable.....especially if the government provides our land and uses tax to subsidize these school.

作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-3-13 22:37

回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子

English is the international language today. Expats consider all these factors and the lack of school openings is one of the big deterrents.

作者: md23 時間: 13-3-13 22:37

iamfine 發表於 13-3-13 18:56
The University and Careers Office of ISF has just released an update on university offers for its 2n ...

Frankly, it sounds just ok. Perhaps they will get better in future years.

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 22:45 標題: 引用：回復+Shrimpiggy+的帖子 English+is+the+i

原帖由 HKTHK 於 13-03-13 發表
回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子

English is the international language today. Expats consider all these fact ...

The root cause of this is the government is reluctant to give land to organizations to establish school or other NGO for no direct tax or levy purpose! If there's more land given to IS, I am sure that IS placement should not be an issue! Land is scarce but always go to property developers......don't believe there is no collusion....see how the ex CS and ex CE being charged or being investigated in connection with ....

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 22:47 標題: 回覆：Shrimpiggy 的帖子

That's what "long hair" pointed out in this program.

作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-3-13 22:53

回復 md23 的帖子

Just by virtue of legacy, it will get better over time. The most interesting question to me is how much better will it be.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-3-13 23:17

Shrimpiggy 發表於 13-3-13 22:23
Hk is problematic in Cost of living, pollution, language barrier, yes, all these factors matters when they should have considered before they come to HK! ...

I guess you should know that after 1997 many ex-pats have indeed left Hongkong, and fewer are interested in coming, for the very reasons you mentioned. For those who still naively dream of an "exotic Chinese adventure", they either opt for Singapore or China, the former for the timid ones and the latter for the more adventurous.

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 23:30 標題: 引用：Quote:Shrimpiggy+發表於+13-3-13+22:23+Hk

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 13-03-13 發表
I guess you should know that after 1997 many ex-pats have indeed left Hongkong, and fewer are intere ...

don't need to talk about Expats, many locals left Hk and many go to shanghai and Beijing in early 2000 in the hope of being the pioneers of China booms. a question, why Expats prefers to go to China and Singapore? we are loosing the competitive edge thus less competitive expats deemed to come and the cost of living, pollution, language barrier are minor considerations if they can have a package higher than in their homeland but lower in tax... ..

作者: caa 時間: 13-3-13 23:35

Shrimpiggy 發表於 13-3-13 23:30
don't need to talk about Expats, many locals left Hk and many go to shanghai and Beijing in early 20 ...

Don't quite get what you are trying to say. Please could you write in Chinese?

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 23:38 標題: 回覆：caa 的帖子

thank you to remind me my weakest in English.

作者: caa 時間: 13-3-13 23:49

回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子

I meant it. What do u mean by "less competitive expats deemed to come"? Do u mean they are eager or reluctant to come? I happen to know people who determined to leave HK for Singapore entirely due to kids' education and pollution concerns.

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-13 23:58 標題: 回覆：caa 的帖子

no one will frankly tell you that they can't go elsewhere...

作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-3-14 01:00

For anyone who knows a lot of expat, you will know the only 2 cities they ever want to live in far east are Hong Kong and Tokyo. No matter how much they want to earn money in China, they want to be stationed in Hong Kong, however much travel they need to go to mainland. 99 out of 100 expats, if they were given choices.

Expats we really want or need (those earning millions, some in USD), seldom had problems finding IS.

作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-3-14 01:01

And the less capable expats, those who cannot change head office decision to station that department in Hk rather than in Singapore of Shanghai or Beijing, will then go to these cities.

作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-3-14 01:08

I don't think the government or we as taxpayers should fund any IS (though i will take that route as well), because it is simply parents' choice. Most IS have lots of luxuries, swimming pool, low students-teacher ratio, big campus, etc against LS, and i can't see how any subsidies are justified.

And no one should worry about expats getting spaces in schools (except those with coloured skin, if i may add). The cases in TV shows are isolated ones. in particular these are low ranking employees mostly. The schools may not be as ideal as they like (sure everyone wants HKIS or GSIS) but they will get one. And most IS can easily expand, if they are willing to move out or expand out of the prestigeous HK island area.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-3-14 02:04

21Ckid 發表於 13-3-14 01:00
For anyone who knows a lot of expat, you will know the only 2 cities they ever want to live in far east are Hong Kong and Tokyo ...

This may have been true back in the 80's and 90's, no comments on Tokyo, but Hongkong is no longer the same.

作者: boyboy_mama 時間: 13-3-14 03:29

回復 poonseelai 的帖子

Which school allows Chinese a, please advise.

作者: caa 時間: 13-3-14 07:29

Though I know v few people, I happen to know people who had kids already studying in international schools HK but chose to transfer to Singapore because they were not satisfied with the schools in HK and there are v good international schools with long history in Singapore. These may be isolated cases though.

作者: caa 時間: 13-3-14 07:51

UWC in Singapore has primary and secondary whereas only sixth form in HK. Tanglin Trust in Singapore has almost 90 years history and was named one of best British schools by Guardian. I think these are really good IS

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-3-14 08:40 標題: 引用：UWC+in+Singapore+has+primary+and+seconda

原帖由 caa 於 13-03-14 發表
UWC in Singapore has primary and secondary whereas only sixth form in HK. Tanglin Trust in Singapore ...

However, Singaporeans are not allowed to go to an IS. HK people should considered yourselves lucky.

作者: caa 時間: 13-3-14 09:32

回復 shadeslayer 的帖子

That's true. But if they accept my kids I would really think about emigrating to Singapore. Just wonder why they have world class international schools with both good facilities and academic results while those in HK are either shabby, lack of facilities or lack of impressing academic results

作者: tingtingting 時間: 13-3-14 09:55

Securing a place at UWCSEA at the moment is not that hard. Two of my colleagues (Canadian and South African) left HK for SG last year. Both of them had no difficulty in getting their kids in. (By the way, neither of them have any connection with the school. No big donation, etc.)

作者: minirat 時間: 13-3-14 10:01

caa 發表於 13-3-13 23:49
回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子

I meant it. What do u mean by "less competitive expats deemed to come"? Do u ...

I completely understand where Shrimpiggy is coming from. The expats I know love HK more than Singapore. So I guess it's very much up to individuals. The international schools in Singapore are equally expensive than those in HK.

作者: minirat 時間: 13-3-14 10:04

shadeslayer 發表於 13-3-14 08:40
However, Singaporeans are not allowed to go to an IS. HK people should considered yourselves lucky.

...

Being a Singaporean myself, I don't know any friends who have ever thought of sending their kids to IS in Singapore. Maybe there are Singaporeans who have thought of thate, but I am sure they are the minority. We are confident of our own local education system in general.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-3-14 10:23 標題: 回覆：11 Mar The Pearl Report: International School

We are going off track here but I will just say it is not about how good the education system is, it is about having the choice. It is like saying our Chief Executive is doing great and we don't need democracy.

作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-3-14 10:34

回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

Are you familiar with the expat community, or you just reading the barking by people like Amcham chairman and those relocation consultants, who are really only bargaining.

Very few expats like Singapore, and no offence, many singaporeans like to live here. And if you ever think it is difficult for them to find IS in HK, look into Beijing and Shanghai, BIS (Beijing International School) is the HK equivalent of HKIS, and is extremely hard to get in, the parents almost need to be in the list of who's who, so to speak, and far more expensive.

Honestly, Hk has been very generous to expats, positive discrimination, if i may add.

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-14 11:44 標題: 回覆：21Ckid 的帖子

I love the term positive discrimination.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-3-14 12:32

21Ckid 發表於 13-3-14 10:34
回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

Are you familiar with the expat community ...

If you based your impression on the ex-pats you personally know in Hongkong, then of course it is likely that most of them would tell you they prefer Hongkong to other places, after all, they wouldn't be here or would be gone already if they don't.

I have worked in quite a few multi-national organizations in Hongkong, and I have noticed the number of ex-pats employees had been steadily decreasing since the 90's, no I don't personally know each one of these people, I just know there are less of them now. How do I know that? I see less foreign faces in my work, I see less foreign names in the company phone book.

If you talk about positive discrimination, then you would absolutely LOVE to be a white male in ShangHai.

作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-3-14 12:55

回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

I had lived a number of years abroad, i do know a bit more than you assume.

The down days for expats are the 90's. Many are coming back in the last few years, you are seeing more of them, in particular in finance. I have no idea which companies you work for.

White males love all cities outside the caucasian world. Name any cities they are privileged.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-3-14 13:47

本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 13-3-14 13:50 編輯

21Ckid 發表於 13-3-14 12:55
回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

The down days for expats are the 90's. Many are coming back in the last few years.

Haha, simple demographics speak louder than anecdotal impressions, following are the proportion of whites as a percentage of the total population in Hongkong:-

Census 2001 - 0.7%
Census 2006 - 0.5%
Census 2011 - 0.2%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Hong_Kong

The earliest figure was 2001, so it was not distorted by the exodus of British civil servants and armed forces in the run up to 1997. Granted, Wiki is not an authoritative source, you could do me a favour and find the actual figures published by the HK government.

"Outside the caucasian world" is not a monolithic slab, in Hongkong (and Singapore), white males have to make an effort, albeit not a very strenuous one, in China, they don't even have to try

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-14 14:09 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+FattyDaddy+於+13-3-14+13:50+

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 13-03-14 發表
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 13-3-14 13:50 編輯

Both statements of lesser expats in hk and white males love to work in HK have no conflicts.
More and more locals taking the middle and top management roles in HK. You can see HSBC, Standard chartered, MTR, CLP, etc that locals are the majority in managing these financial, utility companies. Only top management and subject matter experts might have expats in HK.
Thus expats still love to work in HK for top management roles while the middle level management opportunity for them are shrinking.....

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-3-14 14:22 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+FattyDaddy+於+13-03-14+發表

原帖由 Shrimpiggy 於 13-03-14 發表
Both statements of lesser expats in hk and white males love to work in HK have no conflicts.
More an ...

Big corporations like to outsource non core functions. The outsourced team typically comprise middle to lower management or manual labour, etc. For one of the company you mentioned here, I know for a fact that a non-core function that is completely outsourced have a number of Caucasian in the team. Another company I know is in similar situation, even the top 2 level of the outsourced team are foreigners. Leaving the junior management and manual labour to the locals. I didn't notice that many foreigners in outsourced teams in the past.

So yes, there are still a lot of foreigners working in HK.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-3-14 14:24 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+FattyDaddy+於+13-3-14+13:50+

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 13-03-14 發表
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 13-3-14 13:50 編輯

FattyDaddy,

Are expats on work visa counted towards the wiki demographic data?

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-3-14 14:45

shadeslayer 發表於 13-3-14 14:24
FattyDaddy,

Are expats on work visa counted towards the wiki demographic data?

The same set of figures show an increase in the number of Indonesians, 0.8% (2001), 1.3% (2006), 1.9% (2011), most of these would be domestic helpers on work visa.

For an accurate assessment of population structure, it is vital to account for everyone in the territory, including transient people like tourists, and yes, less white tourists are coming to HK, that is also a common consensus.

作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-3-14 22:53

FattyDaddy 發表於 13-3-14 13:47
Haha, simple demographics speak louder than anecdotal impressions, following are the proportion of ...

For christ sake, you have been wasting your time doing this.... searching the web i guess with words like "demographic" etc and was so jubilant that after much efforts, you bumped into a certain web site with numbers you dreamed of..... Did it ever come to you that the numbers didn't make sense, that it was totally against our common sense that we are seeing more and more gweis nowadays? Can wiki not make any mistakes???

I did this: at the bottom of your quoted web site (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Hong_Kong), there was a list of reference, the first one is the official census report with a link (http://www.census2011.gov.hk/pdf/summary-results.pdf), here in table 6 were shown the real numbers of "whites" in Hong Kong:

2001: 0.7%
2006: 0.5%
2011: 0.8%

Yes, the correct % of whites for 2011 was 0.8%, not 0.2%. Wiki made a mistake, why can't it? The above did spend me a few minutes, I hope the time wasn't wasted if you do learn, and trust your own eyes.

It seems you are only familiar with one city, shanghai, in china, and in all around asia i suppose. If you believe that, it is up to you.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-3-15 00:26

本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 13-3-15 00:40 編輯

21Ckid 發表於 13-3-14 22:53
Yes, the correct % of whites for 2011 was 0.8%, not 0.2%. Wiki made a mistake, why can't it? ...

Sure it can, that was why I asked you to do me a favour and check it, which you did, and both I and Wiki stand corrected. Actually I did not verify your findings by scanning through the 154 page document, I took your word in good faith.

So what does that tell us? 0.7% in 2001, 0.5% in 2006, and 0.8% in 2011, it would appear there is no real trend and we're back to square one, it neither confirmed "HK has more and more gweilo" nor "HK has less and less gweilo".

My choice of ShangHai for China is obvious, if we are going to compare Hongkong to China with regard to the willingness of ex-pats to reside, it is only fair to pick the most internationalized city in China, what would be the point in comparing Hongkong to somewhere like Hohhot?

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-3-15 01:16 標題: 回覆：FattyDaddy 的帖子

I am so selffish that I would like to spend time to help ourselves to make a better decision rather than getting myself involved in disputes not benefit our kids.

作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-3-15 01:50

FattyDaddy 發表於 13-3-15 00:26
Sure it can, that was why I asked you to do me a favour and check it, which you did, and both I and ...

Nobody needs to scan through 154 pages (or even 1000 pages) to get a piece of information, except perhaps you, because there is something called an index. It takes you less than 1 minute to get to that information. You know what index is all about?

I don't know what your "square one" is, but i suppose you means 0.2% and 0.8% are quite the same, but then i couldn't disagree, as we could as well just round it down, and there will be no whites in HK, perhaps never ever.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-3-15 02:04

21Ckid 發表於 13-3-15 01:50
Nobody needs to scan through 154 pages (or even 1000 pages) to get a piece of information ...

I don't know what you're bickering on about, I did not scan the document because I took your word for it, in good faith, you're unhappy about that?

Square one means the difference between 0.7% in 2001 and 0.8% in 2011 is immaterial, it neither proved me right nor proved you wrong, and lets leave it at that.

作者: hkparent 時間: 13-3-15 09:18 標題: 回覆：21Ckid 的帖子

21Ckid, I think you are getting quite personal in picking what FattyDaddy has said. I don't know any of you but I hope participants in this kind of forum show true respect to one another.

作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-3-15 10:07

回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

Of course I can leave you there, to save you from further embarrassment.

作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-3-15 10:08

回復 hkparent 的帖子

Who started this, after all?

歡迎光臨教育王國 (/)