教育王國
標題: MYP looking for honest review [打印本頁]
作者: Hoola 時間: 24-4-28 01:25 標題: MYP looking for honest review
Would like to know your honest feedback on MYP? Do you like it? If not, why not?My kid was at a PYP school and the lack of clarity was a nightmare. Most things were inquiry based, but young kids lacked systemic knowledge to even begin inquiring. PYP sounds nice and all, but in reality, it was rather impractical. I would love to hear your views on MYP!
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-4-28 10:07
PYP school 的課堂time table和教學內容、活動都沒有資訊？
我的孩子一直在IB school學習，以上的基本資訊從來不缺。
PYP 一樣有中英數美術體育音樂的基礎學習：語言的拼音、語法、默寫、作句、不同體裁的寫作；數學的加減乘除、圖形、量度、統計由淺至深。
PYP到MYP，一路都有課程跟進。MYP時候有些科目的用書其實是gcse 果套，所以學習的過程其實不是不可掌握。
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-4-28 10:13
至於你提及的unit of inquiry, 其實只佔time table上某些課堂，是一種跨學科學習，多數偏向social science/history/science的認識。小學階段有這科目，讓孩子活潑地學習未嘗不是好事。
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-4-28 18:27
至於MYP 其實繼續有不同科目專科專教；而MYP其中一個特點是每科都要寫文和做presentation/project。因此大家都覺得IB 學生的research and presentation skill好利害。
我的孩子在MYP階段的學習算是扎實，他有嘗試自修準備igcse的一些科目和應考，對他上IBDP是個不錯的預備。
作者: lastpass 時間: 24-4-29 07:58
Hoola 發表於 24-4-28 01:25 
Would like to know your honest feedback on MYP? Do you like it? If not, why not?My kid was at a PYP ...
冇curriculum newsletter？
PYP做了36個units，有冇問返小朋友佢每日返學做了什麼？
作者: RainyRice 時間: 24-4-29 08:51
Hoola 發表於 24-4-28 01:25
Would like to know your honest feedback on MYP? Do you like it? If not, why not?My kid was at a PYP ...
本帖最後由 RainyRice 於 24-4-29 08:57 編輯
Google找到以下星島IB專題其中兩篇報道。這篇是從傳統轉IB MYP遇到的困難及如何解決：
https://www.stheadline.com/parenting/3320363/IB課程家長不欲催谷升中棄傳統龍校升讀MYP玩得認真學以致用
以下是教育機構comment, 關於PYP直升MYP的困難。當然會偏向提議要有操練，但PYP上的comment大致上和你說的相近，可參考她對MYP的說法：
https://www.stheadline.com/parenting/3320299/IB課程前IB狀元Joyce-Wu分享不是想像般輕鬆想讀IB最好於幼稚園做一樣工夫
IB教育機構Cana Elite Education Centre 共同創辦人Joyce Wu是IB狀元，當年考獲44 / 45分佳績而獲全數學費資助到英國劍橋大學修讀經濟學，如今已是媽媽也是教導IB課程的老師，Joyce說：「IB的確沒有傳統課程的死板，但也不是大家想像的輕鬆。」
最簡單是傳統課程大多屬單向式學習。「IB課程有說明老師的角色是一位facilitator，教學模式像student center；….
「然而這一切要建基於老師的極強組織力，能將小學生該要學習的知識融入於不同課題中，可是因着PYP由學校及老師作導向式指引，部分學生會困惑不曉得自己在學甚麼，欠缺一個solid的成果，因而感到迷惘；所謂學懂是在於經歷後有人跟自己debrief，從而得到一個清晰的討論、指引。此外，縱然國際學校已經是小班教學，但是debriefing方面始終也未能跟每位學生做到，部分學校的主題組合往往只着重結果，因而忘記了過程中其實是要打好基本功。」
…. Joyce以教學經驗所得，完全沒有操練也實在不能。「情況就像1至100，只有少部分學校做到中間位置，很多同學升上MYP便浮現問題，而到時才補習便吃力了，譬如數學科一定要鍛煉好基本運算，才有能力計算更高階的算式。因此家長如要為孩子揀選適合的課程，就要清晰了解孩子的領悟力及組織能力，這兩方面較弱的孩子選讀PYP只會感到很lost —— 不是說PYP的課程有問題，而是演繹課程的方法實在太多，…只能說部分孩子未能只依靠課程好好學習，家長必須注意，否則PYP時好happy，再升上去就非常unhappy了。」
作者: Hoola 時間: 24-4-29 09:30
To my understand, PYP and MYP is a framework and how it is implemented differ vastly among different schools. Some schools are great, providing a mixture of inquiry/research/presentation experience along with some solid knowledge teaching, while some schools fail to give the balance.
This lead to my question, which International School in hk provide a great MYP program? Which IS MYP is not delivering?
On the other hand, IGCSE, is more knowledge and exam based, but as school follows the curriculum, it usually deliver what it intends. Please correct me if i am wrong.
作者: Hoola 時間: 24-4-29 09:33
回覆 Radiomama 的帖子
Thanks for your sharing! It sounds like your school has strike a good balance between knowledge vs inquiry! Do you mind sharing the name of your school? Here or via pm?
作者: Hoola 時間: 24-4-29 09:41
回覆 Radiomama 的帖子
Our school focus a lot on the unit of inquiry, with little time left to teach 基礎學習。The teaching of basic knowledge feels rushed and is not consolidated.
For example, fractions are taught in 2 lessons. My children needs practice to absorb it all
但只係靠上堂講幾講、基礎好弱。
This could be a specific school problem, rather than PYP as a whole.
作者: RainyRice 時間: 24-4-29 09:47
Hoola 發表於 24-4-29 09:41
回覆 Radiomama 的帖子
Our school focus a lot on the unit of inquiry, with little time left to teach ...
Sounds exactly like the issue raised in the article. Would be curious be know which PYP school does better in this aspect:
完全沒有操練也實在不能。「情況就像1至100，只有少部分學校做到中間位置，很多同學升上MYP便浮現問題，而到時才補習便吃力了，譬如數學科一定要鍛煉好基本運算，才有能力計算更高階的算式。
作者: sainsbury 時間: 24-4-29 10:21
IB is juz so common these days from ESF VSA CDNIS to CIS and ISF and there isn't much discussion or concerns raised here on this fundamental issue with IB programme design.
Interested to see if parents from other schools encounter the same and see whether its an IB issue or school issue.
作者: Hoola 時間: 24-4-29 10:35
回覆 RainyRice 的帖子
Exactly. Getting young kids 7-10 years old to have quality discussion and presentation is way harder than it is on paper.
Their research and presentation skills at young age is very green. So the quality of their research output and sharing to class is not particularly high. Once the class gets through everybody, a big chunk of time is used. Little left for solid teaching.
Perhaps, it works well at other schools, but as far as I can see, not at our school.
I would love to hear other sharing on the efficiency of other PYP program in HK.
作者: Hoola 時間: 24-4-29 10:39
回覆 sainsbury 的帖子
Very well phrased. Many parents think these IB curriculum are the same, but I doubt so.I seldom hear discussion on this. Almost everyone, just discuss on the IB scores of each school.
How are MYP executed in differ schools? Are kids learning a good balance of solid knowledge and "the way of learning"?
作者: RainyRice 時間: 24-4-29 11:03
Hoola 發表於 24-4-29 10:39
回覆 sainsbury 的帖子
Very well phrased. Many parents think these IB curriculum are the same, but I ...
Wonder which IB PYP school are you referring to?
作者: sainsbury 時間: 24-4-29 11:18
Hoola 發表於 24-4-29 10:35
回覆 RainyRice 的帖子
Exactly. Getting young kids 7-10 years old to have quality discussion and pre ...
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-4-29 13:56
Hoola 發表於 24-4-29 09:33
回覆 Radiomama 的帖子
Thanks for your sharing! It sounds like your school has strike a good balance ...
小兒Y1-13在RCHK 就讀。
基礎學習是必要，不過又不一定要花好多時間或者要好多補習。
小學階段，基本就是做好學校派回來的home learning（家課），初小時還有「每日一篇」和Raz kids platform的閱讀練習。那時老師也有介紹免費的網上平台Mathletics做數學練習，孩子都好喜歡。基礎練習就是這樣累積。
高小之後，我們有參加美國一網上學習平台，孩子較(emoji)系統接受數學及科學的知識。
至於提到research & presentation skills, 是一個好慢和漫長的成長過程；我仲記得第一次參與3-way conference 及student led conference, 一個bb模樣的人仔，要講自己學咗啲乜，真係要俾好多耐性同時間，佢一步一個腳印，十幾年下來，才成為今天嘅佢。
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-4-29 14:10 標題: 回覆樓主：
本帖最後由 Radiomama 於 24-4-29 14:10 編輯
升上MYP後，家長見到學生成績無起色、上堂不專心，通常都會將學生轉介去補習。我也曾有這個爭扎，不過最後無行這條路。
學生在學習上究竟遇上咩困難？例如是不明白課程內容定不知道如何寫lab report? 是英文語法不佳定無創作靈感感？
又還是原來掛住打機睇YouTube 所以根本無心上課？
作者: HoneyButter 時間: 24-4-29 17:30
本帖最後由 HoneyButter 於 24-4-29 17:31 編輯
同意樓主所說, 感同身受。有curriculum newsletter, 和 weekly email, 仍感到資訊不足夠, 本人幾乎每天也問孩子上學做過什麼. IB是一個美好的概念, 看來問題是在執行和實踐, 基本功與概念的交滙. 一言難盡, MYP將至, 萬分焦慮.
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-4-29 18:22
HoneyButter 發表於 24-4-29 17:30
同意樓主所說, 感同身受。有curriculum newsletter, 和 weekly email, 仍感到資訊不足夠, 本人幾乎每天也問 ...
有冇參加學校的活動和講座？甚至約老師見面溝通呢？
每次3 way conference 及student led conference我都會擬定題目向孩子和老師發問，reflection and feedback 是重要的一環。另外，每個學期孩子都會帶一個厚厚的profolio回家，有冇習慣和時間仔細去研究一下？
我到今天仍然keep住孩子的這些學習記錄，其實真係好有趣。
作者: 964000 時間: 24-4-29 18:35
HoneyButter 發表於 24-4-29 17:30
同意樓主所說, 感同身受。有curriculum newsletter, 和 weekly email, 仍感到資訊不足夠, 本人幾乎每天也問 ...
本帖最後由 964000 於 24-4-29 18:57 編輯
我女小學雖然是British curriculum 加IB training, 其實我也不太清楚他們實際學了甚麼
但大家學校沒有做standard test嗎？我知ESF都有，會評估自己小朋友在英文和數學的水平，和英國私校學生比較percentile，保持到便不需太焦慮。
其實想知小朋友的學習成果，不一定要靠考試測驗分數，可以看他看甚麼書，寫的文章，做的projects, 都略知一二，有沒有「鑑賞下」？
另外學校也有unit assessment, 如果不達標應該會出聲，school reports應該也會comment on writing and maths 等水平，加埋standard test的結果，都應該大概知道情況，不需要太焦慮。
但如果日日打機乜都唔理，上堂發夢做功課求其，從不看書，就真牙煙D, 就算讀local school都死，學習態度問題。
作者: BlossomAlmond 時間: 24-4-29 20:04
Hoola 發表於 24-4-28 01:25
Would like to know your honest feedback on MYP? Do you like it? If not, why not?My kid was at a PYP ...
Sounds really frustrating, I can feel your worries. Mind sharing the school name? Via pm if you don’t want to share it here.
Thank you!
作者: HoneyButter 時間: 24-4-29 20:14
回覆 Radiomama 的帖子
沒有講座, 什少有活動, 活動多數是孩子有份參與的才會獲邀到學校, 例如該 year 孩子參與的assembly, 全year家長可以去看, 有些是某幾位學生在assembly上台的家長才能參加, 全校活動較少。2種conferences多數官腔, 叫不用担心, 沒什麼要担心, 只有一年好彩遇到好老師才有特破性的真心誠意回饋 (無論好與壞)。profolio在全年完結時才帶回來的, 有看, 亦仍然keep住在家。
作者: HoneyButter 時間: 24-4-29 21:23
本帖最後由 HoneyButter 於 24-4-29 21:25 編輯
964000 發表於 24-4-29 18:35
本帖最後由 964000 於 24-4-29 18:57 編輯
我女小學雖然是British curriculum 加IB training, 其實我也 ...
有standard test, 有pre-assessment, unit assessment 什少, 大概了解孩子的水平。
會skip 部份 maths 嗎 (跳教)? 幾乎沒有science? 會否集中只有一少部份人全年有多重角色﹑多次機會﹑多官多職?
焦慮是担心MYP會否是同一模式跳教?
作者: poonseelai 時間: 24-4-29 21:28 標題: 回覆樓主:
孩子學校小四到初中也會參加international school assessment, Eng and Math papers, 學校都會睇返overall school results vs global, 睇下有那些改善地方, 雖然pyp無test, 自己也有個概念孩子大約水平
作者: poonseelai 時間: 24-4-29 21:31
HoneyButter 發表於 24-4-29 21:23
有standard test, 有pre-assessment, unit assessment 什少, 大概了解孩子的水平。
會skip 部份 maths 嗎 ...
即老師會選人做角色, 好多時同一批人？按成績？
作者: HoneyButter 時間: 24-4-29 23:02
回覆 poonseelai 的帖子
對, 同一批人. 不是按成績.
作者: RainyRice 時間: 24-4-29 23:44 標題: 回覆樓主：
本帖最後由 RainyRice 於 24-5-28 23:43 編輯
看見大家的回覆，基本上IB尤其是PYP MYP只是一個框架。似乎行IB PYP MYP 的IS，VSA ESF-RC都做得不錯，但有些其他沒有開名的ESF / IB學校則做PYP MYP行得不如理想，甚至同一間學校，可能有些小朋友和家長會受到更好的待遇，而覺得學校很好，但某些小朋友則不受關注。這似乎是學校和某些老師的問題。
那樓主其實會不會嘗試轉其他IB學校或其他非MYP 的國際學校？
而已完成IB課程的家長又有什麼意見提議給大家？謝謝。
作者: poonseelai 時間: 24-4-30 06:27
RainyRice 發表於 24-4-29 23:44
看見大家的回覆，基本上IB尤其是PYP MYP只是一個框架。似乎行IB PYP MYP 的IS，VSA ESF-RC都做得不錯，但有 ...
pyp 加myp嘅學校得幾間
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-4-30 07:24
IB school 要辦得好不是容易，所以選校要睇track record。
同時家長要主動出擊去了解老師的教學模式和內容，只要保持良好態度，無見過不肯回應家長提問的老師。所以大家要把握每一次機會。
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-4-30 07:55 標題: 回覆樓主：
本帖最後由 Radiomama 於 24-4-30 08:44 編輯
本帖最後由 Radiomama 於 24-4-30 08:05 編輯
朋友曾比喻，唸本地學校是在泳池游泳，有賽道規範、池深已經預知；而唸IB school則是在海裏游，掌握技巧只是第一步。我見啲老人家每日到沙灘游早水，慢慢游唔好急係竅門 ，同你在池邊睇操水是兩種不同風景。
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-4-30 07:58 標題: 回覆樓主：
本帖最後由 Radiomama 於 24-4-30 08:06 編輯
如果硬要問老師：個海有幾長、即係等於幾多個池、幾多秒游一個來回，你唔會得到答案。
所以家長也要思考究竟想知道IB的什麼。
作者: Saboc 時間: 24-4-30 08:23
本帖最後由 Saboc 於 24-4-30 08:26 編輯
讀緊英基中學,去到中學完全唔知道每一個學期教學topic嘅sequence,雜亂無章,可能佢好有系統,但學生同家長一無所知
小朋友大個,其實家長就唔會再插手佢哋嘅讀書,但起碼作為消費者都想知下究竟學校發生緊乜事.
想問其他國際學校係唔係都係咁
作者: RainyRice 時間: 24-4-30 08:33 標題: 回覆樓主：
本帖最後由 RainyRice 於 24-4-30 09:17 編輯
For ESF, I have heard more negative feedback (parents feeling lost) from QBS SJS … I heard RC SIS KJS are better (teachers communication with parents). Is this consistent with your understanding?
The better communications I heard could be cuz their kids just transitioned into the ESF secondary schools and faces challenges. Teachers kept the parents informed on areas the kids were underperforming.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 24-4-30 08:51
Saboc 發表於 24-4-30 08:23
讀緊英基中學,去到中學完全唔知道每一個學期教學topic嘅sequence,雜亂無章,可能佢好有系統,但學生同家長一 ...
本帖最後由 poonseelai 於 24-4-30 08:52 編輯
你那間是igcse 定 myp？
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-4-30 08:57
英基中學，不是每間都行MYP, 只有RC 同DC; 其他的均是先行校本課程、IGCSE，然後最後兩年IBDP。
每學年的教學內容，老師應該有個「劇本」的，不過好多時候無固定教科書，所以家長覺得亂？上到中學，孩子應該有能力分享自己的學習，每日傾吓偈、聽吓佢講是非，點都知道少少端倪。
作者: RainyRice 時間: 24-4-30 09:12
Radiomama 發表於 24-4-30 08:57
英基中學，不是每間都行MYP, 只有RC 同DC; 其他的均是先行校本課程、IGCSE，然後最後兩年IBDP。
每學年的 ...
本帖最後由 RainyRice 於 24-4-30 09:19 編輯
Although not MPY, the 5 secondary schools have 3 years of curriculum aligned to MYP?
“For the other five ESF secondary schools, the curriculum are aligned to the MYP framework from Years 7 to 9. At Years 10 and 11, students follow a school-designed curriculum with an approach that is broad and balanced leading to a suite of IGCSE and GCSE qualifications.”
https://www.esf.edu.hk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ESF-Secondary-Curriculum-leaflet-2019-4pp.pdf
作者: chunting34 時間: 24-4-30 09:45
Hoola 發表於 24-4-29 09:41
回覆 Radiomama 的帖子
Our school focus a lot on the unit of inquiry, with little time left to teach ...
Thanks for raising this for discussion!
This is consistent with what I observed in PYP as well.
Foundation knowledge is weak.
Inquiry skills were taught quite well, but since the class size is so big, a teacher could spend very little time on one kid to give specific guidance and feedback, which I think is very important if you want them to improve. The chances for each kid to present and share are also limited.
It seems that only the relatively top kids can benefit from it, while others have tutorials outside to build up the foundation knowledge. Some schools do not even have weekly email from class/ year group teachers for communication.
The idea of IB learning is very good, but the execution is hard
作者: Hoola 時間: 24-4-30 09:59
回覆 HoneyButter 的帖子
Agree! A nice selling concept, but so many problems when executing.As a parent from IB school, I feel like I am their maths teacher, english teacher, chinese teacher after school.
Sending them to tutor center more often than I anticipated.
If this is going to be same at MYP, maybe British curriculum is the preferred route
作者: Hoola 時間: 24-4-30 10:08
本帖最後由 Hoola 於 24-4-30 10:43 編輯
回覆 Radiomama 的帖子
To me, those student-led conference are fancy names.Its basically just sharing of what they did.
Every time I attended, there is a well of disappointment inside me.
Students are confused and don't know what to share.
On their portfolio, I can see they did so little and research was swallow.
Often I see this at the end of year, and then it hits me - my child have wasted a year at that school.
I have changed my kid to a British Curriculum school (Harrow) - things became so much clearer. Objectives were clear. Targets were always met. Teachers know what they are doing. My kid thrived and I don't have to overlook everything like I used to, because the school is always organized. My kid is almost at the end of upper primary and soon its time to move onto high school.
I need to decide whether to stay at our current British Curriculum school or apply other prestigious MYP schools like CIS. But CIS are MYP, so I want to understand whether there are great MYP schools out there (and maybe give IB a second chance).
作者: Hoola 時間: 24-4-30 10:16
本帖最後由 Hoola 於 24-4-30 10:45 編輯
回覆 964000 的帖子
In our past PYP school, we seldom have standard tests. Maybe once per year?
Even if the students are passing with flying colors, it doesn't mean its from the IB program.
From what I observed, most parents realize there is little academic teaching in the program and begin to supplement with extra tutoring. Leading to great assessment outcome. The school think the outcome is their credit, but that's far from the truth.
作者: Hoola 時間: 24-4-30 10:21
回覆 HoneyButter 的帖子
We don't have standard test.We don't have pre-assessment.
We don't have unit assessment.
Teachers always say not to worry. 
作者: Hoola 時間: 24-4-30 10:32
本帖最後由 Hoola 於 24-4-30 10:48 編輯
回覆 Saboc 的帖子
This is exactly what I am afraid of.At PYP level, I can still oversee the child's learning.
But MYP level, I think as parents, we should be more hands off and let them strive their way.
I am afraid with all the ambiguity, the child may accept that is normal and won't reach his/her highest potential.
作者: Mrspan 時間: 24-4-30 11:48
Hoola 發表於 24-4-30 10:08
回覆 Radiomama 的帖子
To me, those student-led conference are fancy names.Its basically just sharin ...
I agree with ur views totally. Just curious, after ur kid moved to Harrow, did u find ur kid hard to catch up at the beginning? As the academic level was low in the previous school. And did u find anything that ur kid is better than “non-IB” trained kids?
Thanks!(emoji)(emoji)
作者: Hoola 時間: 24-4-30 12:03
回覆 Mrspan 的帖子
My kid did not find it hard to catch up at the beginning, cause we did all the catching up (after school) while we were still at the PYP school or else we would have never passed the entrance assessment of Harrow (it ain't easy!)
I don't think my kid was any better than non-IB trained kids.
maybe Harrow isn't a sit-down-listen-to-teacher-only school. Teaching (even if it isn't IB curriculum) isn't old school like the olden days. There are projects, interactions, lots of leadership and group discussions. She was rather shocked that everyone had strong work ethnic, self-motivated to be better and she wanted to mimic that attitude of her new peers. She found the peers of her old school more lay back.
One thing that was good about the IB program at our old school
It did teach my kid to be caring and compassionate. I think many academic rigorous school wouldn't dwell on that too much, but our former PYP school spend a lot of time on that.
作者: RainyRice 時間: 24-4-30 12:16
Radiomama 發表於 24-4-30 07:24
IB school 要辦得好不是容易，所以選校要睇track record。
同時家長要主動出擊去了解老師的教學模式和內容 ...
很多人選擇ESF就是因為他的中學IBDP有track record. 以為了進這些中學，就要從幼稚園開始進入ESF這個機構。亦都認為前人可以直升上中學最後IBDP考到好成績，所以小朋友只要入到ESF便一勞永逸。認識很多家長都是採取放任式，而升上中學到了MYP/校本MYP-aligned初中，小朋友開始跟得辛苦，開始感到吃力，老師開始聯絡家長，希望家長和小朋友想辦法。
如何避免這個情況，或者如你所講要把握每一次和老師溝通的機會，不知還有什麼方法可以幫小朋友在ESF PYP小學會否可以讀得更好。
也由於大部份IB PYP (and or MYP/MYP-aligned 校本課程）學校到時一條龍直升中學，他們的中學成績多數都很好，令到家長對這些小學都太放心，實在太危險了。
作者: RainyRice 時間: 24-4-30 12:22
Hoola 發表於 24-4-30 09:59
回覆 HoneyButter 的帖子
Agree! A nice selling concept, but so many problems when executing.As a par ...
本帖最後由 RainyRice 於 24-5-28 23:47 編輯
本帖
作者: Hoola 時間: 24-4-30 12:40
Nice read - another perspective
https://wrpvincent.com/why-i-am-not-a-fan-of-the-myp/
作者: Tomiris 時間: 24-4-30 13:30
本帖最後由 Tomiris 於 24-4-30 15:06 編輯
我仔學校係行 PYP 0既, 我相信同好多家長一樣一開始會諗到底佢0係學校學0左咩同做啲咩, 但感恩學校 website 有好 detailed 0既 curriculum guides for 每一年級, 每星期亦會收到 weekly summary 話俾家長知小朋友學/做0左啲咩, 黎緊個星期會做啲咩咁, 再加上每個學期家長都可以睇到小朋友每日上堂用0既作業簿, worksheets, projects 等等, 所以我好清楚知道小朋友0既情況同進度, 亦發現原來佢地學0既0野一啲都唔簡單 :) 而且仲要寫好多字添! 希望上到中學行 MYP 時情況唔會比而家差啦~
所以我相信係每間學校執行 PYP/ MYP 0既情況唔一樣, IB programmes 本身0既設計在我黎講就無問題
作者: little_sparrow 時間: 24-4-30 13:47
Radiomama 發表於 24-4-29 13:56
小兒Y1-13在RCHK 就讀。
基礎學習是必要，不過又不一定要花好多時間或者要好多補習。
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 24-4-30 14:15
Thank you for the interesting discussions.
It is nice to hear from a variety of IS users with kids in various stages of learning (lower and upper primary, secondary, graduates) sharing their experiences and concerns. The reason why there is seldom a direct comparison of the syllabuses of different IB schools, to my view, is that only very few parents could come across the curriculum of more than one IB school (unless their kid switched school or they have kids studying at different schools), thus able to make "direct" comparison.
My son spent 3 years in a British curriculum school, then switched to an IB through-train school and has been there for almost 2 years.
I noticed that the discussions (even in the past) were mainly on British curriculum Vs IB schools, seldom would the parent of an "American school" join the discussions, actually I am more curious on that
For myself, I see the "British curriculum" is more structured because the teaching material is standardized, like Mandela, Rosa Parks, Sinbad the Sailor...these texts which my son used to study were commonly used among British schools and it is easy to get teaching resources for these materials. While for IB curriculum, it is very "personalized" and really depends on the "executor" - your class teacher. Even within the same school, different classes would have picked up different materials for discussion and led to different learning outcomes. So I guess whether a kid learns well also depends on which teacher he/she met.
The other difference I noticed on British curriculum Vs IB curriculum is the "degree of independence" expected from the kids. IB demands a higher level of independence and teachers tend to encourage the kids to share rather than writing emails directly to the parents. They encourage the students to share their own work with their parents/peers rather than directly passing the google classroom password to the parent, which was the case in the British curriculum school.
I agree that drilling on basic knowledge is weak in my son's current IB school when compared to the previous British curriculum one, and the teaching at IB school seems to be slower. So when I have further plans for my son, I need to put in extra effort to catch up - but it wasn't as difficult as I thought, and by far I haven't sought help from any external tutor.
It is always my belief that IS parents cannot be lazy - keeping track of student levels at school reports is a must, checking curriculums coverage when necessary (the resource is open and easy to access), and although my son haven't been in the MYP yet, I see the school has arranged a lot of transition talks for prospective MYP parents, to provide as much information as they need. Guess these are essential for smooth transition to MYP.
Last but not least, I personally know quite a number of MYP students and DP graduates from IB schools in HK, to name a few, ICHK, KGV and RCHK, who have benefitted from the IB curriculum and exceled in their IGCSE / IBDP exams without external tuition. One thing in common, is that, their parents are usually not "tiger parents" but would encourage multi-diversity exposures for their kids in the parenting journey.
Sorry for the long article.
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-4-30 21:02
little_sparrow 發表於 24-4-30 13:47
謝謝分享。可否分享一下高小之後參加的美國網上學習平台的名字以作參考？謝謝。 ...
不妨試一下Khan Academy，免費的網上自學平台。
另外，Johns Hopkins University 的CTY online courses則要先做評估(talent search), 分數達標就可以報讀，不過價錢較貴。
作者: barque 時間: 24-4-30 23:06
Hoola 發表於 24-4-30 09:59
回覆 HoneyButter 的帖子
Agree! A nice selling concept, but so many problems when executing.As a par ...
我唔知道你是否過度擔心小朋友的學習進度呢？自己小朋友從Y1 - Y9是PYP + MYP, 之後是IGCSE 和IB. 自己唔覺得PYP和MYP有太大問題，按自己觀察如果能夠善用課外的時間去培養小朋友愛上閱讀和寫作，之後考IGCSE和IB都不會有太大問題。
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-4-30 23:19
Hoola 發表於 24-4-30 12:03
回覆 Mrspan 的帖子
My kid did not find it hard to catch up at the beginning, cause we did all the c ...
看來Harrow/British curriculum/GCSE/A level 較適合你們。
最緊要找到自己的學習興趣、又有志同道合的好朋輩，這樣孩子的成長必定如魚得水。
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 24-4-30 23:50
Radiomama 發表於 24-4-30 07:55
本帖最後由 Radiomama 於 24-4-30 08:05 編輯
朋友曾比喻，唸本地學校是在泳池游泳，有賽道規範、池深已經 ...
你呢個post令我諗返起幾年前我仔幼稚園被收購，要改課程而發生嘅小風波。
我仔幼稚園係一間鬼婆開嘅村校，出名上堂玩泥沙，既冇課程亦冇課本，兩年幼稚園冇教Phonics連寫A-Z都未教完，佢哋嘅教學真係非常之「啟發性」。
當年有投資者入股，想將間學校改成雙語幼稚園，會有課程同埋功課，惹來一班家長嘅不滿，要求同管理層對話。
喺座談會之中，有一位家長舉手發言，佢話佢嘅大仔喺呢間幼稚園畢業，升上ESF考ISA發現佢仔嘅能力係比真實年齡超越10個月，而佢覺得呢個係幼稚園所俾嘅「啟發性教育」嘅功勞。呢位家長嘅背景絕不簡單，佢係教育學博士，喺大學做講師。
學習路途漫長，有了正確的方法自會修成正果，教育係唔應該只睇一刻嘅成就嘅。
作者: RainyRice 時間: 24-5-1 00:30
mandy_ng207 發表於 24-4-30 23:50
你呢個post令我諗返起幾年前我仔幼稚園被收購，要改課程而發生嘅小風波。
我仔幼稚園係一間鬼婆開嘅村校， ...
同一時間，這很大可能都是家長的功勞。一個教育學博士大學講師做父母，這位小朋友應該每日在家都有不斷的啟發性教育。好像上面那篇MYP分享文章所提到：Many authors have written about the effects on knowledge-rich curriculums and their effects on reducing inequality in society. By ensuring a knowledge-rich curriculum schools are able to impact children from impoverished homes to ensure that they are able to become fully engaged citizens when they are older. Children from poorer socio-economic backgrounds are less likely to have access to books at home and are less likely to be exposed to as many words and ideas in the family home as children from higher income families.
因此，這些啟發性的教學方法例如IB比較適合家長能夠支持這個教育理念的家庭。真的不容易，父母都要不停增值自己不停受再教育。
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-5-1 06:57
RainyRice 發表於 24-4-30 12:16
很多人選擇ESF就是因為他的中學IBDP有track record. 以為了進這些中學，就要從幼稚園開始進入ESF這個機構 ...
Track record不應只局限於IBDP公開考試的成績，也要睇學校整體如何推行(execute)IB的理念、老師的教學質素同學生嘅學習生活。
ESF只是一個大的辦學機構，學費相宜，因此吸引。她的整體平均表現(overall average) 其實正正提醒家長，學生要好努力才能有好表現。
贊同樓上有講，在IB框架，老師的經驗令學習內容、活動有好大主導作用和分別。校內每級的year coordinator能否拉近老師差異、增加協作、發揮團隊互相；而learning enhancement teacher的設置又係咪發揮到拔尖補底功能，同一課堂有冇做分流教學，呢啲都係IB school 在execution 及administration 上要做到的工作。
還想一提，學校的管理層實在影響學校的發展方向，佢嘅理念、佢聘請什麼教學人員，這些不容忽視。家長在許可的情況下，是應該多認識佢哋及向他們反映自己的想法。
學校的網站、annual report, 3-year or 5-year strategic plan, newsletter都係公開資料，多細讀，會有所發現。
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-5-1 09:30 標題: 回覆樓主：
本帖最後由 Radiomama 於 24-5-1 09:59 編輯
以下有感而發：
我不是IB fans, 不過因為孩子進入了IB school, 所以多年以來我嘗試認識這種連本地教育都想模仿的框架。
在同一間學校13年，當然遇過不同的老師；有些老師hea, 實在難免，但對自己的孩子卻可以有要求。記得Y6一年花最多時間是PYP Exhibition, 他那一年是individual project, 最後老師對所有學生作品不會給予評核，只是要求學生自己寫reflection 及self evaluation. 他寫下什麼，就是什麼。
家長就這樣滿意嗎？
老實說，當年我有跟孩子一起反思他的research 過程及創作結果，就連定題目和方向都有俾comment。信任他，才會對他有要求，亦希望他的學習更紥實。
在IB 框架下，「家教」的配合好重要；我哋長期思考「補習」的需要，不過最後大家決定自己可以處理。
作者: poonseelai 時間: 24-5-1 11:36
Radiomama 發表於 24-5-1 06:57
Track record不應只局限於IBDP公開考試的成績，也要睇學校整體如何推行(execute)IB的理念、老師的教學質素 ...
本帖最後由 poonseelai 於 24-5-1 14:42 編輯
相比你，我只係一個矇查查的IB家長，兩個孩子pyp, myp，dp之後入大學，不是神校神科，而家做普通打工仔。師兄師姐同學不少入神校神科，咁即係話 ib through train school一樣可以培育孩子足夠的能力。
我自己也是一路學習什麼是ib, 盡量去學校安排比家長的 coffee morning,3 way conference等
ib是否符合一個家長的要求，好睇你要求什麼，我相信 skill 比 knowledge 重要，有skill set有興趣，孩子可以不停學習，去找需要的knowledge
近日聽一個YouTuber講東西方教育理念，亞洲國家普遍認為孩子去到某一個歲數就要達某個標準，所以多考試測驗去評核水平，亞洲孩子亦比較考試叻，睇PISA結果就知。
西方一般無這些標準，比較着重孩子個人發展，有能力有興趣的孩子可跑得好遠，大部分就做普通人(其實全世界都係)。
無話邊套制度好D，選自己喜歡啦
作者: poonseelai 時間: 24-5-1 11:44
Radiomama 發表於 24-5-1 09:30
以下有感而發：
我不是IB fans, 不過因為孩子進入了IB school, 所以多年以來我嘗試認識這種連本地教育都想 ...
好嘅老師係可遇不可求，什麼學制都一樣，多年來好嘅有，hea 教嘅有，學歷好好但唔識教又有，有時A同學(或家長 ) 覺得好但B同學又唔同意
學校管理層理念十分重要，盡量出席家長會去聽多D
作者: Radiomama 時間: 24-5-1 14:57
poonseelai 發表於 24-5-1 11:36
本帖最後由 poonseelai 於 24-5-1 14:42 編輯
相比你，我只係一個矇查查的IB家長，兩個孩子pyp, myp，d ...
雖然大家子女不同學校，但透過分享，過去我也得到很多啟發。
作者: cowmoon 時間: 24-5-16 18:54
MYP curriculum 係有分 subject 同每一個 subject 有各自嘅 progression 同 assessment criteria (A,B,C,D)。例如 Maths：
Criterion A: Knowing and understanding
Students select and apply mathematics to solve problems in both familiar and unfamiliar situations in a variety
of contexts, demonstrating knowledge and understanding of the framework’s branches (number, algebra,
geometry and trigonometry, statistics and probability).
Criterion B: Investigating patterns
Students work through investigations to become risk-takers, inquirers and critical thinkers.
Criterion C: Communicating
Students use appropriate mathematical language and different forms of representation when communicating
mathematical ideas, reasoning and findings, both orally and in writing.
Criterion D: Applying mathematics in real-life contexts
Students transfer theoretical mathematical knowledge into real-world situations and apply appropriate
problem-solving strategies, draw valid conclusions and reflect upon their results.
MYP 官網有資料。
https://www.ibo.org/programmes/middle-years-programme/curriculum/
例如，我孩子以前係 MYP 不停都有 assessment，仲會講明今次係 criteria A/C assessement 定係 criteria B assessment。佢哋平時堂上會有 guided practice 之後先 summative。因為 MYP 有幾科，佢哋輪着 assessment 都好忙架 （如果學生認真讀書嘅話，當然總有學生唔準備/唔做功課，不論什麼 curriculum 都可以學習或不學習）。
我自己覺得 MYP 好好，甚至比 DP 係 skills 方面更全面（因為 DP 本來預你由 MYP 上）- 例如 scientific investigations (lab - hypothesis, procedure, evaluation), maths pattern investigation （我因為以前一向幫本地課程小朋友補數，所以都研究咗一輪 Criteria B 學咩，其實一啲都唔容易），或者寫 essay 嘅 skills。通常 Knowledge 都係 criteria A，而成績要好要 criteria A,B,C,D 都好，所以 MYP 要成績好唔係靠溫書背書做 past paper 就得，學到嘅 skills 係好有用嘅，如果小朋友俾心機學習，老師又教得好嘅話。
作者: Erminator 時間: 6 天前
Wonder if schools having lower teacher-student ratio deliver the program better?
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