Oxford Reading Tree ORT

JennyL

原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-10 11:00 發表

I seldom ask her to read aloud to us story books. Reading aloud is reserved for poems. So we are not sure about reading in that sense. However, if she read books on her own and talked about the story after reading or asking questions about the content, I am quite safe to say that she understands the bulk of it.

It is advisable to ask a child to read aloud if we are talking about reading for the purpose of learning a language. The ORT books are graded readers with that purpose (ie learning the language), so children should start by reading alour.
There is no better way of learning a language, by doing what the native tongues would do.  If we are talking about western way of learning English language (including the way they learn at international schools in Hong Kong adopting a western curriculum), it would be reading aloud.
Do not underestimate the benefit of reading aloud. You cannot tell how much a child can read and understand from a book if he does not read aloud. Knowing the story plot does not indicate he is reading a book of the right level. With books like ORT where there are lots of pictures, he can easily guess what is going on without the real need of knowing the words. So by merely asking questions about the content does not tell you whether you kid is reading a book of the right level.
Qualified western teachers would be able tell you that to conduct a quality reading (both at home and at school) task, we have to ask the kid to read aloud to check whether he can read the word (or if the word is new to him, whether he can get/guess the pronounciation by sounding out or by checking the context/content), and then followed by simple questions about the context/content or discussion of the topic (if book is non-fiction).
Of course, if we are talking about leisure reading, it does not really matter what book you read and it does not matter whether you know how to read all the words. However, I do not think the ORT are generally considered leisure reading books, especially in local schools. So we need to maintain the boundary high.
Parents are tempted to be unconciously too aggressive. But for the genuine benefit of a child, we should really stop and think what we should expect from the reading.
Is our goal merely to have our children move on to harder books? Or is our goal really to have our children learn from the books? If these 2 goals can be acheived at the same time, it would of course be perfect. However, parents are too tempted to sacrifice the later for the former.

[ 本文章最後由 JennyL 於 07-12-10 20:06 編輯 ]

JennyL

原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-10 22:08 發表

The Oxford Reading Tree storybook boxes and the Read at Home series are designed for the purpose of leisure reading (reading for fun). Visit their website (http://www.oup.com/oxed/children/readathom ...

There are 2 main types of reading.
Leisure reading is reading for no purpose other than for personal entertainment. I read a lot for leisure, my children too. My elder child is now reading some of my Agatha Christie's Poirot books which are definitely difficult for her. Many words are difficult for her, the English in the books is old fashioned and the context can be quite mature. But since that is leisure reading, she does not have to know all the words. All she has been doing is to read for the plot. And I just let her do it.
The ORT is definitely not one of those leisure reading books, at least not in your case, since your child is reading it with the purpose of learning English. Rather, the series was developed with the main purpose of teaching the language. In fact, I know that some local kindergarten or primary incorporate this set of books as part of their English language teaching tool books and student are using them in class. It is not like my Poirot books or even the Harry Potter series, which the authors did not intend to teach the English language with their books. Using the Harry Potter books as an example, even young western kids might have problems understanding some of the more challenging words. But we would not stop them from reading (I do not want to discuss about the context, which some very religious people think is "evil") just because there are words that they do not unerstand. They are merely reading the books as leisure reading, they are merely reading for the story itself. As long as they know what happened next, they are pleased.
The ORT is not the same. The sole purpose of levelling the books is to monitor the reading level of children and help them improve. In western education, both reading and spelling are systematicall levelled. Western teachers would tell parents how to select books for children as part of the home reading program. The simplest way is to check how many words in one page (full of words with no pictures) that a child cannot read. If there are more than 6, the book is too difficult. Now I am talking about books much more advanced than the ORT. I am talking about chapter books like, say, Roald Dahl books. For the ORT books where tere are so many big pictures, I would say at most 2 words that a kid cannot read in one page would be the limit. Then after the kid has learnt the words (the meaning and pronounciation), he can move on.
The children need to go on to the next reading level when they are ready. When are they ready? How do we tell they are ready? There is no way better than asking him to read aloud. If a child is skipping the more challenging words, he can still know the story but he is not learning that word he skipped. And without learning the words in a ORT book in a lower level, I do not think a child should move on to the next.
I wrote my previous message (and this) with the purpose of sharing my own experience as a mother with 2 children, one of them is now in secondary school. My children have out grown the levelled readers a long time ago. They are now in much more advanced books. My elder child is now into her first year in secondary school where her English class is more of literature appreciation than the language skills itself. However, since both of my childre have once read the ORT books, I know how the books were designed to work, and wanted to share my views.
I am merely putting forth some of my personal views of hot to utilize the ORT a better way. If you like it your way, that's good. If you are happy with your child's progress, that's good. But I am sure some other parents would like to see an alternative way of utilizing the ORT books.
I have been a parent volunteer at my younger child's class (primary school) to hear children read to me. It is part of the reading program where children are to get a book of the correct level (This is not leisure reading, but with the purpose of improving their reading skills.) I noticed that even native English speaking children can have the problem of choosing books. Girls tend to choose very difficult books; and boys tend to choose very easy books. There are exception of course but children just do not know how to choose books to read (for this reading program, not leisure reading), for the specific purpose (ie to improve reading skills), and teachers and parents were to help them. They were asked to read to us, so that we can tell them whether the book chose is ok. Children would not benefit if they have chosen books that are not of the appropriate level to read. Either way, they would not be learning as efficiently as they should have.

JennyL

講開 reading aloud，請問有冇人知中文是不是都可用同樣的方法？
<=== I would think so. Without reading aloud, you just cannot tell whether a child has the correct pronounciation. Even with Cantonese, many children have "lan yam" and do not pronounce a word properly. If we are talking about learning Putonghua, children of course should be encouraged to read aloud. I just do not see how reading aloud can be bad.

即是說在幼兒期，教小孩漢語拼音，然後在小孩的讀物裡貼上漢語拼音，好讓他就算不會艱深的中文字，亦可以用普通話朗讀出故事的內容。
<=== Do not overdo in putting in the pinyin. My experience is that, my younger child was once very dependent on the pinyin. He has in fact been reading directly fromt he pinyin instead of the chinese words.

英文方面，是否可以在小學前教孩子認44個國際音標？這樣在小學時期，只要在小孩讀物上的 tricky words (即是不跟字母發音的生字) 加上音標，他就能朗讀出課外讀物的內容。這是否 work 呢？
<=== Not sure whether it is good. But my children never learnt 國際音標, or phonics. They have always been taught to chop up words and were encouraged to sound them out.

如果不是native speakers，在中文讀物的難字上寫下英文同義詞，而在英文讀物的生字寫上中文同義詞。這是好主意，還是壞主意呢？
<=== My experience is that, writing the meaning in the corresponding language should be better.

仔仔今年三歲，他和囡囡(九歲)是用英文交談，這是一個人為的語文環境。他們已習慣了用英文交談，但這種人為的語文環境是否不能長久呢？
<=== If they continue to so so, yes, they might eventually be very used to speaking with each other in English. My children are exactly like this.

我聽說太子附近有一些專補名校學生的學校，這些補習學校除了可幫到校內成績外，是否可以真的提升英語能力呢？有沒有人有這種經驗。
<=== My children have never 補習. (With 2 children of different ages that are very active and have lots of sports interests, sometimes it is hard to fit this into our schedule.) But if you are able to find a good tutor, we should, however, not underestimate the benefit. I know that some 補習學校 has their own very systematic way of teaching which can boost up English skills for local school children.

JennyL

原文章由 鳳梨 於 07-12-11 12:11 發表
點解好似咁complicated.

讀書唔一定要speak aloud
especially睇緊小說, 追緊劇情,
只要上心就得啦

Agreed 100%.
There is no need to read aloud if you are reading a book for the story, eg Harry Potter series.

My suggestion of reading aloud was a one off task; and for those levelled readers only.
My child has to read aloud to me to see whether he can pronounce the words.
If he could not pronounce a word, I would teach him how to pronounce it. Then he is to stick to the same level for some time.

[ 本文章最後由 JennyL 於 07-12-11 17:24 編輯 ]

JennyL

(1) I think reading for leisure will help learning of English a lot. Actually there is much research evidence for the level of proficiency being related to the amount of extra-class reading. So do not assume that leisure reading is not part of learning English.

<=== You are misreading my message. Leisure reading helps, of course.  But ORT is not leisure reading. That's it.

(2) If you would like to check whether kids are choosing the correct ORT stages, Oxford has published comprehension worksheets to go with the books. Those are much better tools for judging reading at appropriate levels.

<=== I never purchased those worksheets. In fact, I never purchased any ORT books. The kids read a lot of them and there was no point buying the whole set. There must be many ways of judging the kids level. Your way probably suit you better. But I am asking for more, that's it. My kids, at those younger age (before 7), had to read to me aloud every now and then, so that I know that they can really pronounce the words. Once they learnt the word, they are free to read by themselves the same book the next day. Some kids recognise the words, or even know the meaning, but they cannot pronounce it. I just do not see how a kid that keep skipping words can be qualified to go to another level.

(3) For in class reading (of the same book) or at home reading, comprehension level can be checked by discussions on the content of the books.

<=== Discission is only part of the assessment procedures. Like I said, anyone can know how the story goes and still cannot pronounce the words. For some books, you can practically skip paragraphs and still know what's going on. He comprehends the book but he is not learning the words. At least, I do not think the ORT was designed for children to skip words.

(4) Reading aloud is a poor way of checking understanding. Many of us may have the experience of reading a piece which we know every words but the meaning is difficult to grasp. If you know all the words, you can read aloud. [Actually, I can read aloud a piece of German without knowing the meanings of most of the words]. However, with complex sentence structures and complicated lines of thought, the meaning can be difficult to follow. Learning to read is reading for meaning, not sound.

<=== I never said reading aloud is for checking understanding. Reading aloud is to check whether a kid can pronounce the word. Then, it has to be followed by discussions and questions. So it is takes both. You need to know how to read the word and the meaning as well. PLUS you need to comprehend the story. You seem to be doing half only.

(5) Go and visit any Kumon centre and you will know that this graded read aloud method has been the standard practice of Kumon. It has been shown to be of very limited use in both Japan (English) and Hong Kong (English and Putonghua).

<=== I am not a fan of Kumon, in particular their English or Chinese programs.

(6) Especially the later stages and the tree-top series, the language used is not for reading aloud. Those of us with experience will know that we have to use different language structures in writing a speech and writing a paper report. The same applies to writing stories to be read aloud and to be read silently.

<=== Reading aloud, like I said, is for beginners like your child. So I was focusing on the ORT only. And the reading aloud is purely for assessment purpose. They can freely read on their own the first or second time, but for me to decide whether my children are reading books of the appropriate level, I need to ask them to read aloud, AT LEAST ONCE. For advanced readers, like upper primary students, there might be no need to read aloud at all. No one would read aloud the Harry Potter Series. You seem to have misunderstood my message.

(7) That is why oxford has prepared drama scripts to accompany the school set. The drama scripts have been designed with the purpose of reading aloud. So if read aloud activities are needed in school. Those drama scripts should be used.

<=== All story books can be used as "reading aloud" tools.

There is nothing personal. There would not be serios harm by occasionally asking kids to read aloud. However, I do think that there are much better ways to use ORT and its related resource packs.

<=== Have I been personal? I do not even know who you are. I was here to share my experience and views. There are many ways to suit different people. But it is unfortunate if my views have been misunderstood and misquoted.

JennyL

原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-11 17:44 發表
Have I misunderstood your point? Is it your point that ORT for learning English should be read aloud?

If that is not your original point, I am sorry that I cannot follow your post. However, it seems  ...

It seems that we have all along been talking about very different expectations/values.

The discussion started out when you said that you did not care whether you child can read the words in the ORT books before letting her move on to the next level. I therefore raised that this should not be the proper way of assessing a child.

I never said that all books should be read aloud. And I never said that children of all ages should read books aloud. I was talking about young beginners that are still reading the ORT books.

FYI, reading aloud is a good way of learning a new language even for adult. Without asking the student to read aloud, how can you be so sure that the pronounciation is correct?

In any case, if you still insist that without knowing how to pronounce words in those ORT and your child can still move on to the next level, then let it be.

I want to be more direct this time --- just this last time. Your child is only a beginner in learning English. Just be humble and do things step by step. Do not compare to more advanced learners, your child is just not one of them yet. There is nothing wrong doing things slower in the beginning. Learning a language is not easy. Just do what a beginner should be doing and let her move on at proper pace.

This is the last message I am going to write. It quite tiring reading and typing so many words within a day. I think there is no point dragging on. We are both not wrong, just that we have very different priorities and values.

Last, I never have doubt in your child's English level. I am sure she is good, well, she has to be good, right?

Good day.