請問版主：為何此處空窗處處？連Eviepa都被釘戶？

Tommy

Speechless!

So many windows empty, so many people gone, so many familiar names stand lonely next to the empty windows.  So silent in the forum, so sad……………

But, I shouldn’t / wouldn’t / couldn’t shut my month up just because of speechless.  Hope the honorable webmasters allow me to say something.

Now, all parties are at loss.  I think nobody wants to see the current situation.  I agree and support that BK should set some ground rules to keep the discussion forum in good order.  However, I want to give some comments on the rule of “Disrespect” and the ban account policy to manage “Disrespect”.

There are so many stakeholders in the BK forum.  I do agree all stakeholders should be respected and the “Respectful” guideline should be in place to cover them.  However, I think the principal objective of setting “Respectful” guideline is to protect the members participating in the discussion and to ensure the forum in good order.

I’m not saying the webmaster should not be protected by the “Respectful” guideline.  I just think, to protect the webmasters should carry less priority than to protect the members and the forum itself.  After all, webmasters play a monitoring and judging role and they have power to ban accounts.  As such, they should be very careful to exercise their power when the issues are concerning themselves.  

In case some bad guys really say something disrespectful to the webmasters, I do believe other members will make their own judgment and willing to come out to protect the webmasters.  It did happen in the past.  In conclusion, ideally the BK members and the forum should be protected by the rules and guideline while the webmasters should be protected by the BK members.  But now, it seems to be the other way round.  What a pity!

I’ve been hanging around in BK for 9 years.  “Tommy” is my only account in BK.  My identity is transparent to many people in my boys’ schools.  No matter which forum I go and what I say, I always login with “Tommy”.  I treasure it so much.  Hope the honorable webmasters keep my account intact.

Tommy

Tommy

原帖由 iantsang 於 11-10-19 17:35 發表
I do not want to see more casualty so please understand the situation before further comments.

Ian,

如果能夠與judy和eviepa一起陣亡（Sorry, 韜了您們的光），我倒覺是我的榮耀，不過我知我沒這個資格。

Anyway, 多謝您沒有關閉我的帳戶，並作出了迅速的回應和詳細的交代。我將會慢慢釋懷。

始終覺得多運用預防教育，少進行事後懲罰，大家便可以相親相愛，一團和氣，喜氣洋洋。您應該明白我的意思的。

Tommy

Tommy

原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-10-19 18:59 發表
Let's be patience and allow webmasters to review the relevant thread.

I assume most of our web pals are banned for one day, anyway, we will know more the content of temporary banned posts after thei ...

ANChan,

一個是我的偶像，一個是我的老友；明知多事兼犯險，也不得不拔刀相助。

Tommy

Tommy

原帖由 cow 於 11-10-19 21:51 發表
星島日報 2011-10-19
曾鈺成重申嚴格執行議事規則

曾鈺成表示，相信香港市民期望見到一個更加開放、更具透明度的立法會，他們亦期望見到一個有尊嚴、高質素的立法會，而尊嚴及質素不可能來自議員之間，或者官員與議員之間的 ...

很有意思！突然間對曾鈺成先生有更深刻的了解。

Tommy

原帖由 iantsang 於 11-10-20 22:22 發表


Sumyeema,

Please allow my personal apology to you.  The minute I saw you post I was disappointed and I have tears in my eyes when I have to take the actions required.  

There are really a lo ...

Ian,

I totally understand there are so many limitations in BK's infrastructure and being a webmaster is really a tough job.  However, I think to ban the accounts, no matter  1 days, 2 days or 14 days, just because they make comment on the thread or jsut share their feelings, is not a good way to manage the members and the forum.  On the contrary, it stirs up people's emotion and even make the the situation even more messy.

Why don't you simply do a time-out to the thread and stick a "STOP" sign onto it?   

By doing this, no more discussion is allowed, all the threads is kept unchanged for further investigation, everything is transparent to all the members.  Isn't that nice?

Tommy

Tommy

原帖由 wunma 於 11-10-21 11:14 發表
剛開了個主題便立即被封查文章, 冒死在此告訴大家, 此處言論自由已死!

wunma,

Yes, I've seen your new thread and tried to reply at once.  But, when I pressed the "submit" bottom, your thread had been removed.

I think you're now seriously considering totally pull out and take a good rest.  

Please, please don't give up.  The freedom of speech is getting less and less in Hong Kong.  Among all the websites in HK, BK is already relatively free and well managed.  Let's keep it, protect it and pass it to the next generation parents.

Tommy

Tommy

原帖由 iantsang 於 11-10-21 11:43 發表


Tommy,

I have took your advice not to ban the account in the first place, so I just move it away.  But it doesn't help the situation so do you have other suggestions?  I have given the chance to the members, but do they really respect that?  I would like to ask.

Ian,

Actually, I want to take a rest.  However, you asked me some questions so I'm more than happy to answer you.  In order to comply with the rules and regulations you set previously, I'd better answer your questions in here.

http://forum.edu-kingdom.com/viewthread.php?tid=2338899&extra=&page=1

Tommy

Tommy

原帖由 eviepa 於 11-10-22 01:16 發表
危機管理ABC：要快！

若要快，就要掌握緩急次序。

關於motherotk有沒有鼓吹porn絕非焦點。雖然很多網友指出沒有實質鼓勵porn，但既然在字面上確是「鼓勵」，而又有網友投訴，展開調查是合理的。面對洋洋十多頁的thread，的確費時 ...

eviepa, 不需要再追問judy 的個案了。
edea, 妳也不需替eviepa 查詢了，因為judy 的 case 已經
settled.


judy於十月十七日出事，帳戶被封。同日，iantsang聲稱要對judy其中一段post進行legal review.

17 Oct 2011
http://forum.edu-kingdom.com/viewthread.php?tid=2338899&extra=page%3D1&page=2
No. 27

judy: One of her posts is now under legal review.  The complete content of this post has been removed from this thread so it is no longer viewable by any means.  While this is in process, the concerned account has to be blocked in the meantime.

翌日，iantsang 表示他們正尋求legal advices，暫時對judy的post的內容未有具體的allegation.

18 Oct 2011
http://forum.edu-kingdom.com/viewthread.php?tid=2338899&extra=page%3D1&page=3
No. 49

(2) For the case of judy's account, it was banned after the review by at least three 超版. The comment made has shown disrespect to one of the 超版 during the post. As a result of that, it was also confirmed by these three 超版 that the account will be banned for 14 days as a penalty. At the same time, legal advices are being seeked concerning the contents so this is why I mentioned there was a legal review before. I was being careless to combine these two situations together so please accept my apology on that. There are no specific allegations made so let's also make this clear.

iantsang的法律顧問效率其高，翌日便作出了最後決定，他在這裡已經作出了交代。

19 Oct 2011
http://forum.edu-kingdom.com/viewthread.php?tid=2339699&extra=page%3D1

(3) No further reviews of any kind on the post by member judy and the penalty has been set to 14 days.  So her account will be re-activated automatically around 12 days later, and all her posts will be accessible again.

Tommy

[ 本帖最後由 Tommy 於 11-10-22 22:05 編輯 ]

Tommy

我不知道這邊由那一位版主負責，抑或直接由管理員負責，無論如何希望有人可以回答。

請恕我多事一問，會員cow的現況怎樣？他的帳戶沒有顯示禁言期限，他是否被永久禁言？

他應該是因為本論題第39號留言出事，超版亦於41號留言作了全面引述。其實，眾多被封的帳戶，我最不明不白為何被封的就是cow.

Tommy

引用:

原帖由 cow 於 11-10-20 23:14 發表
AGREE!

The freedom of speech is fundamental human rights. There is no REASON to ban one's account because of sharing of feelings as long as the contents do not violate the forum's regulations.

._.                 

I would quote you in full again but actions will continue to be taken.

If you have to rely on the forum regulations, here is what you need to read.

"所有違規帖子可被刪除，事前事後將不會作出警告或通知，嚴重違規者，更可被永久禁止發言。

管理員及版主有權因應情況，刪減任何帖子，會員不得異議。"

Tommy

我絕對贊成所有會員都應該享有同等的權利，以及受同樣的規則約束，不能因為他（她）們的才華、資歷、見解、對論壇的貢獻多少而有不同的對待。

如果judy是因為取笑其他網友，或對其他網友惡言相向而遭封戶禁言，我只會對她說：「抵死！您都有今日喇！」

我曾經說過「對網友不尊敬」和「對版主不尊敬」在執法上要有不同的準則；「對網友不尊敬」執法要嚴，「對版主不尊敬」執法要小心。

如果judy今次是對版主惡言相向，或故意取笑版主，破壞秩序而遭禁言，我也覺無可厚非，不會有異議。但「玩泥沙，打拳擊」好明顯只是嘻笑怒罵式的諷刺，正如某網友所說有少少「串串貢」，就算有唔尊重都唔算好嚴重。

其實，最近出來「撐」的「老鬼」，有邊個未曾被judy取笑過丫？但經過時間的沉澱，路遙知馬力，雖素未謀面，但大家總算是惺惺相惜的網上朋友。

導至我高調出來發聲，是因為超版提出的legal review和之後一連串的封戶禁言行動。Legal review令我感覺到有唬嚇的成份，一連串的封戶禁言行動更加有限制言論的意圖。然而，Ian後來詳細的交代和迅速停止legal review，我覺得他具誠意，但執法的程序和細節，日後可以做得更加好。

現在「大臣」一錘定音，大家都清楚明白，我也沒有什麼補充。在商而商，我明白什麼是「長遠發展」，您說「只有身懷絕技的高手才能在這裡生存」更加道出了問題的核心。

我們一班六十後「老餅」，由孩子就讀幼稚園時開始上BK，到現在他們都接近要入大學，唔通BK仲要去開一個「大學選科」、「大學雜談」，「大學生家長分享」專區咩！講真，早前「教育政策」版長期被十多位網友佔據頭幾個專題，而很少其他新來的網友加入討論，我已經知道遲早會出事。

Anyway, 真心感謝BK設立這一個園地，我在這裡學會了很多，個人亦成長了。是時候淡出了！但我仍然希望久不久可以和一班老餅，上來互報平安和分享孩子成長的喜訊。大家珍重！

Tommy

Tommy

原帖由 csy_ma 於 11-10-29 22:38 發表


引用:

Tommy已不發聲, 現連你也跟隨, 會否大家等到得個吉? 可能大家已正中了大臣及版主下懷, 不快事件漸漸被淡化/淡忘.

以上是一位網友給我的PM。佢既擔心，是否演變為事實？

我想請問一下：Judy"刑滿"了沒有？超版大人是否想待她刑滿？讓事情就此過去？我們，是否在等一個可能不會出現的交代？

反正，網上總有來去，資深網友，不留也吧？ ...

csy_ma,

早前連續作戰一星期，很累，人大了，戰鬥力無以前咁強，見大臣「一錘定音」，我立刻謝了，需要一點休息。

佩服您強捍的戰鬥能力，見到您一路鬥志旺盛，至今仍未放棄，我也不敢偷懶。很抱歉，我尚未回應您上星期的發文，甚至連一些PM債都未還清。


judy的刑期有效至十一月一日，版主對judy的個案已經作出結論，算是清楚交代了。如果沒有新的風波，他們當然不會再作評論；如果沒有人再發聲，事件當然就會被淡忘。

等！等甚麼？事情不可能因為我們「等」而有所改變。要有好的結果就要有改變，要改變就要有行動。然而BK是一個私人的商業機構，它不是一個公共機構；大臣是BK的主要股東，他的決定就是這個商業機構的最後決定。

除非涉及公眾利益，否則BK有百份之百的自由去處理版務，但judy被封戶禁言、不尊敬版主就要被禁言一兩天，這些「小事」涉及公眾利益嗎？

要作出真正的改變，可能要全面收購「親子王國」，您和我有這樣的財力嗎？如果今天親子王國要ipo上市，點都值十個八個億罷！我地咁多個BK男和BK靚太有這個財力嗎？

高牆就是高牆，我們只是蛋散！沒有錢，沒有權，永遠都只係蛋散！

Tommy

Tommy

Tommy :

我親身目睹而心驚的，也是Judy被封後的連串禁言。不過，因既不知道常中細節，最近也賊忙，假如不是看見您據理力爭，反省到自己沉默的自私，我想也不會在這的發文。

現在，您所關注的網友都被囚獲釋了，但您卻要淡出，是不是……還欠一個說法？

csy_ma,

欠您的說法，今天就還給您喇！上文我已經提到我對大臣「一錘定音」的感受。

其實，我在BK一向都很少發言，只是早年活躍於小兒就讀小學的討論區，或間中抱打不平出來發發勞騷。兩位孩子已經先後畢業離校了，我也不得不淡出；「教育政策」版變成育兒方法討論區後，我更加沒什麼可分享，但我會做CDROM，盡量去學，但講真，學到都未必用得到，或已經錯過了最佳的時機。

講返今次呢件事，大臣出來解釋和總結，他給我的第一個感覺就好像是，國內天災人禍後一個星期，國家領導人到災場巡視慰問，………國家要長遠發展，要向前看，要顧全大局，國家發展已經有好大成就，人民生活獲得前所未有的改善，過程中難免有沙沙石石，但國家要穩定，人民要尊重黨的領導………

說得很好聽，好像是溫爺爺出來了！

不能改變的，就不要強行硬碰，總要有人留返條命做深化工作，慢慢影響，自己做唔到，就交給下一代由他們去做罷！

Tommy

Tommy

原帖由 csy_ma 於 11-10-30 19:13 發表


在BK，我其實是看的多，說的少，受惠遠較付出多的。

在此順便向常在BK獻出時間指點迷津的各位網友致謝 謝謝呵，雖然我不會再發言，但基於實際需要（不好意思，我囡今年升中，仍得搜集資料），我仍會繼續旁觀受惠，在此向各位說聲再見了  

csy_ma,

還以為您出來繼續戰鬥，如果是因為我短短的兩段留言，而令您不再發言，我寧願繼續沉默，永遠欠您一個說法。

我近年的留言分段分得好細，多了用句號，就是您教曉我的。您的留言雖沒有很多教育孩子的技巧，但往往能令人作出深度思考，令我們獲益，您在BK的貢獻不比提供教學方法的家長少呢！

很可惜！

Tommy

Tommy

judy,

我等著您回來！

這個殘局，只有您能收拾。

Tommy

Tommy

eviepa 發表於 12-1-24 23:53
幾個月沒有在BK發言了，但一直在觀察BK的發展。回顧我最後的發言是在10月23日回應cow的意見：

eviepa,

我都睇漏了您的留言，若非mothertko推一推，我都錯過您的留言。茶樓要營運好多年才能凝聚一班熟客，但一個缺失就可以令一班老茶客各散東西。大家可能都會偶爾入來望一望，但每一次都是人去樓空，或因時空交錯，不能碰面。


這裡依然有源源不斷的資訊交流，但思想的交流卻少了很多，茶樓已經變為了便利店，又好似被大業主規劃成都市化的商場，只見人來人去，匆匆忙忙。


Tommy