你可以笑我是何不食肉糜，但…

uncleedward

大女兒原來中五同班同學到我家聚會，七嘴八舌談起AL放榜的事。除却像女兒一樣已在大學讀書的十個八個外，轉到怛商莊啟程的都考得不錯，但留在原校的卻不少差強人意。這些都是意料之內，有點令人驚訝的是，相對留校升預科的，很多同學因成績未夠好而跑到外國讀書的，似乎都能找到很錯的大學。她們說UCL就已有三四個。
With a mediocre academic standing, Hong Kong students are still able to get into better universities overseas. It looks like that education planning for our children has more or less become a matter of financial planning.

你可以笑我是何不食肉糜，但這確實是一條較好走的路。


[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-22 19:45 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 wunma 於 10-7-22 15:24 發表


你女兒是拔尖入大學的, 對嗎?

我的大曳人舊校情況和你女兒一樣, 留在原校的都考得不好. 到海外留學的, 雖說能入到很好的大學, 但並不開心, 始終是要離鄉別井, 很孤獨的過生活. 值得與否, 見仁見智.

大曳人說希 ...

托賴。

Not considering the financial implications， 我主張到外國唸大學。離開父母，獨立生活，是大多數國家唸大學的自然選擇。大多是初初不慣，慢慢就要媽媽催促才肯回來。而且如今有Skype、MSN，日夕相對都仲得。

以我的經驗，Other things being equal，僱主是較喜歡聘請留學生，特別是國際性公司。我太太說找女婿也要個在外國請書的，起碼較獨立，唔駛照顧番佢。

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-22 20:02 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 Tommy 於 10-7-22 17:26 發表


uncleedward,

小兒升F.2，但都開始要為他計劃升學，如果他要往海外升學，更加要比心機賺多點錢。

有問題想請教您。我的孩子都只是平平凡凡的，我想知道一個平凡的孩子怎樣在一、兩年間變得不平凡，而獲得受歡迎的大學取錄？ ...

I know very little about your kid other than the fact that he is a Pegasus graduate. I may not be able to offer too much help.

First, it is difficult to say whether our kids are mediocre or not. I used to think my younger daughter was mediocre.

Second, we do not necessarily need to think of our children becoming a Nobel Prize winner or a Cal Tech PhD. An academically mediocre person can make a good professional, a lawyer, an accountant, a bank manager ... you name it. Other than medicine, I really can't think of a profession which we are familiar but which denies common souls like us. Normally, leadership, people skills, perseverance, being responsible are more important qualities that contribute more to our success in our professional life.

Third, it is nothing wrong going to mediocre universities, if they match our abilities. In the film "The Blind Side", Sandra Bullock was quite happy to send her son to University of Mississippi which was also her alma mater in the film. The university is only a tier 3 university in the US. It means you do not even need SAT scores to get into the university. In Hong Kong, we are too concerned with the university rankings.

Fourth, the overseas exams tend to be easier (particularly the maths related) because only the top 2 to 3 % will get an A in HK exams but it is top 30% for overseas exams (5 for AP in the US or A for GCE). That is why we see so many HK students doing much better in those exams and subsequently going to seemingly better universities. There was an extreme case. A friend's daughter failed to go up to F7 in her school and had to repeat F6. She then took GCE A levels and then got into a local university under the early admission scheme. A word of caution, being able to get into those universities does not necessarily mean being able to do well in them. A friend of mine was ecstatic when her daughter was admitted into an Ivy League university two years ago but had to fly there a couple of months ago to bring her back.

As a parent, I guess we can only try to be there when our children needs us after they become a teenager. It is a good thing to set a slightly stretching goal for our kids. But anything beyond that, I don't know. I am a relaxed parent. Eviepa may be able to help more.

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-23 00:25 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 eviepa 於 10-7-22 22:30 發表
21 Jun 2010 南華早報有一篇名為“An ‘education detour’ secures University place – Pupils sent overseas to avoid HK A-levels” 的文章，很有趣。

Winnie Choi 的女兒 “With a less-than-brilliant score of ...

That's why I said education planning has more or less become a matter of financial planning.

Actually going overseas for secondary education is more expensive than for university education. And going to American private high schools is even more expensive than the case you quoted.

However, there are some less expensive ways to do it. The girl who failed to make F7 did her GCE exams in Hong Kong while she was repeating F6.
You can take GCE exams in Hong Kong and apply to local universities under the non-JUPAS route.

Going to UK universities costs around $900k to1 million for 3 years if you exclude London. The difference between this and the cost of going to local universities is around $500 to 600K for the 3 years and is still within many people's reach with a careful financial planning from the beginning. The difference will become smaller when local universities change to four years under 334.

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-23 12:56 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 Tommy 於 10-7-23 00:39 發表
uncleedward,

您花了更大的篇幅回答我沒有提出的問題，似乎您看穿了我的心事，知道我問題背後更多的問題。勁！全對。

無錯，平凡人都可以幹出不平凡的事，好像地震災區的義工「阿福」、官校女教師吳美蘭，甚至女導遊「阿珍」 ...

Don't worry, Tommy. As I said elsewhere, I have not seen a single high school graduate in recent years who wants to study for a degree but fails to do so. Eviepa's 18% is correct since it was the same percentage my elder daughter told me and she has a photographic memory. However, this number does not inlude students going overseas or students doing top up degrees or assos.

The important thing is to provide a condusive environment to our children. Try to keep up their academic curiosity.Surround them with books, interesting things, interesting but decent peers (if their mates mostly go to universities, do you still to worry about your children not going to university?)

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-25 09:11 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 wunma 於 10-7-23 11:38 發表


怒我孤陋, 會有人讀完中六後原校不准她升中七而讀不到中七的嗎? 成績這樣差卻又能考到GCE再循EAS入大學, 真有點匪夷所思.

的確匪夷所思，若非認識該女孩，我也不相信。據說還是學校老師教路的。少許更正，是依從non-JUPAS route，不是EAS，雖然二者十分相似。

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-23 13:20 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 eviepa 於 10-7-22 22:30 發表
有錢人的機會遠比窮人大，真有「何不食肉糜」之嘆。of .

Tommy:
"小兒升F.2，但都開始要為他計劃升學，如果他要往海外升學，更加要比心機賺多點錢。"

I think Tommy's attitude is more practical.

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-23 13:01 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 wunma 於 10-7-23 11:49 發表


eviepa,

現時大學的學位課程, 不少都有機會到海外交流半年, 沒錢如我等的子女, 還是有見識機會的.


Wunma

Agreed. Opportunities abound for students doing well in local universities. Some can even go to an Ivy university for a year on local HK fee, with grants and loans, special purpose loans and subsidies as well.

Most students with good A level grades have scholarships upon getting into local universities.  Even for summer courses elsewhere like at Berkeley, some local universities subsidises half of the fee.

Hong Kong is still very much a rich society at the government level which is still able and willing to help out good students within its financial means.

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-23 13:18 編輯 ]

uncleedward

今早有點時問可以用中文來寫個故事(因我中文輸入奇慢)。
去年大女兒從美國回來後，到姨母姨丈家拜訪。當我們在我的in-laws偌大的客廳(超過一千呎)談起女兒大學選科的事，觸及了錢重不重要這個老生常談的問題。大女兒對太太和姨母陳腔濫調的"錢並非萬能，但無錢則萬萬不能"和"冇錢但又想買Chanel袋，咁點"等論點自然不為所動。但想不到my brother in law就在這時說出令好辯如我也一時不知怎樣回答的論點："假設你兒女很渴望去外國讀書，但你又沒有能力負擔，你會覺得點？"我大女兒也不知該如何回應(特別是她剛剛花了我一筆錢在美國遊學了十個月之後)。當時我只有暗暗敬佩，心想my in law 本身沒有兒女，竟可想出如此觀點，商人的智慧真不可小覷。

我出身小康，也從沒有為財政問題真的煩惱過，但我知道餞真的很重要。我唸大學時爸爸就不在了。若不是他留下點錢，我們兄妹數人又怎能都安然唸完大學？其中兩個還是留學的。我感謝我爸爸。正因他的辛勤，才有我們一家安穩的生活，才有我媽媽在每個兒女大學畢業禮上的笑臉。

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-25 10:30 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 stccmc 於 10-7-25 17:36 發表
...

雖然我們常批評香港教育，但香港各方面其實很不錯，包括教育，一些香港大學排名是 世界 Top 50 的常客。

我認為，選科，不應看錢太重，甚至是唯一標準。 有錢，當然好些，多選擇。

Agreed completely. That is why we allowed our daughter to go to university in Hong Kong last year although I wanted her to remain in the US. We also allowed her to read a major other than what we suggested. Personally, I do not believe the major one chooses has anything to do with the amount of money one might make. We suggested law to her only becuase she is cut for studying law: a photographic memory, language skills, people skills and a presentable appearance. But I know only too well from my own experience that the parent is alreadying losing if he has to pursuade his children to do something.

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-26 00:26 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 mattsmum 於 10-7-25 21:43 發表
如果是发疯地想，就一定有方法，
德法意等国家是不收学费的，也有朋友是在澳洲半工读而成专业人士。

Agreed.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

uncleedward

原帖由 stccmc 於 10-7-25 17:36 發表
Uncle,

在我來說，外國升學，和買Channel 袋，一樣是慾望無窮，資源有限。如果小朋友渴望一年外游四次見識呢？ 有三名子女呢？升學外遊有錢，但她要求親子父母陪伴呢？唔使搵食麽？

If I could not afford the things you mentioned for my kids, I would not lose a single night's sleep. But I would try hard to avoid the possibility that I could not afford to send my children abroad for university.

Actually, there was more to my story. After my in-law's inspiring words, I immediately said to my daughter, "Take Granny for example. She suffered from cancer and was already in the public hospital system. The cost of hospital bills is basically nothing as you can imagine, but the cost of of the so called new medicine prescribed but off the official list has cost us something like $300K. What if we could not afford this and something bad happened to her. Sadly, sometimes money does not just mean something extra or better or more choices in our life. Sometimes money means something as basic as right to survival."

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-26 00:24 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 judy 於 10-7-26 11:21 發表


侄仔去年讀醫，他帶出來的情報是大學會盡收中五尖仔，但對AL學生就多多留難，反而偏向另類學生。他認為這是因為大學為提高國际排名之故云云。

確實如此，據在大學工作的同學說，每類學生皆有預定QUOTA。現時以Non-JUPAS途徑入讀最易，連熱門科目也是如此。如HKU Law就預1/3俾Non JUPAS, HKAL 學生有乜法唔打崩頭。

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-26 14:30 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 judy 於 10-7-26 12:50 發表


今日am730施永青篇文好正。

特登找來一看，確是難題。我也曾和女兒討論，可不可以生活過得簡樸一點？但她說周圍的同學朋友都係咁，佢可以點？總不成樣樣與人不同。

記得有一年，我們幾個家長費盡九牛二虎之力才制止了幾個女兒發起的一班同學到半島Chesa 吃聖誕大餐。

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-26 14:41 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 judy 於 10-7-26 14:37 發表


不過，個個父母都一樣，都會提供超過所需的享受，特別係對啲女。

This happens to be what I strongly believe in. Selfishly, I believe after my daughters know what is best available to them both materially and spiritually(within my means), the chance of them falling in love with so called MK boys exists only academically. If they can appreciate 錢鍾書 & 董橋，我又駛乜驚佢哋暑假出入Newway； 識得分麥奀同何洪記雲吞麫嘅唔同，若要嫁個只負担得得乒乓波雲吞麫的丈夫，我也冇符。純粹一個呷醋外父的心態，Steve Martin跟我比簡直温和得不得了。

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-26 15:24 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 wunma 於 10-7-26 11:42 發表


打工仔, 點博命都搵唔到快錢架? 除非向銀行借.

我既睇法, 除非在港讀唔成書, 或肥左科中文, 就賣當借都會供佢地去外國讀, 否則, 在香港讀放心些. ...

That is why careful financial planning is required from the beginning. Hong Kong people have no problem with such planning when it comes to buying the place we live. Acutally, financing our children's overseas studies is still a lot easier than taking out a mortgage loan on a new apartment.

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-29 11:51 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 awah112 於 10-7-26 22:51 發表


Father of the Bride...

Not a highly rated film but one of my favorites, probably because I am a father of two daughters.

uncleedward

原帖由 awah112 於 10-7-26 22:46 發表


我個人認為，生活可不可以過得簡樸一點應該是由我去決定的，並不是由2個仔去決定，除非佢哋自己揾到錢，佢哋就可以決定點洗錢。

咁簡單就好了。有些人，像我女兒輔導的社工小组裹的組員有些連香港廸士尼也未去過(廸欣湖倒是去過的)；但若你的孩子身邊大多是像施永青的兒子一樣，年紀輕輕已環遊世界，而你又afford得起，你真的可以叫他等到他自己出來揾錢後才出外旅遊嗎？施永青做不到，我也做不到。

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-27 18:36 編輯 ]

uncleedward

原帖由 Tommy 於 10-7-22 17:26 發表


uncleedward,

小兒升F.2，但都開始要為他計劃升學，如果他要往海外升學，更加要比心機賺多點錢。

有問題想請教您。我的孩子都只是平平凡凡的，我想知道一個平凡的孩子怎樣在一、兩年間變得不平凡，而獲得受歡迎的大學取錄？ ...

睇完今曰蘋果A1，有少少補充。

我不認為兩拔學生在合唱方面會有顯著的先天優勢，所恃的是拔萃學生對自已那股justified又好，unjustified又好的無比自信心，及除非唔做，做就要做到最好的信念而已。
妻子常笑言拔萃不分男女，都好似一個模倒出來。But, depspite their sometimes naive arrogance, believe me, the efforts they have put in far exceed students in many other schools. 其中自有平庸者，但其self expectation及凡事努力的態度，will carry them a long way in their future days.

但若單靠一日一個鐘，庖丁都冇可能成為刀神。

uncleedward

原帖由 ahdee 於 10-7-30 02:23 發表
完全同意兩拔學生在合唱方面不大可能有任何先天優勢，但指揮(Conductor)應有很大關係。

個人覺得合唱團同足球隊很相似，無論個別隊員有幾叻都好，如果冇一個好領隊，就會同今屆世界盃阿根廷對德國嘅表現相似。

...

也許有這個因素。觀平SPCC自從與SGCC share同一指揮後，其orchestra在音樂節中每年都有進步，今手還不可置信地打敗多屆霸主DBS而奪冠。