Some insights into the better ESF/Intl schools

阿胡

原文章由 WYmom 於 07-10-15 08:11 硐表


Why this topic becomes a discussion of Maths in IS?

Practically speaking, I like the detail teaching of concepts of Maths in ESF, but for numerical calculation, we need to give the kids some exerci ...

WYmom,

我相信很多IS的父母, 正是像你所講, 會在課外增加數學練習. 但一般效果不如在學校好. 當孩子進入中學後, 往往不願意做父母給的數學練習. 當年我大兒子不願意做的一個原因是, "我每個學期數學都是A, 為什麼還要做這麼多?" 現在他讀大學了, 才知道IS的數學練習做得不夠.

我不喜歡本地名校, 所以幾個孩子都會去讀IS. 但IS的平均數學程度真是不高. 如果將來他們在美加讀大學, 問題也不算太大, 因為同學一樣麻麻. 但如讀本地大學, 一定非常辛苦.

father_ho

原文章由 esfpaststudent 於 07-10-13 08:02 硐表
Hi all,

I randomly came across this forum and was totally surprised by everything I saw. I was totally impressed by parents efforts and dedication they have spent in analyzing international schools.  ...

Dear esfpaststudent,

Thanks for your sharing. In my opinion, the most important thing is the mode of training by IS is let the student seek for knowledge rather than just race for marks and hence wasting their time. That's why even student in esf or IS didn't score very high marks in public exam., the elite oversea U's still eager for them.

I admit and support entering IS actually should not just aim at their training for high academic standard but rather adapt to their culture (That's why I still hesitate about real IS and still let my kids in their 'local school'). What I think perfectly is school can train up my kids under local culture but adopting the good points(approach) on teaching methodolgy. Seems a bit too ideal

WYmom

原文章由 father_ho 於 07-10-15 14:55 硐表


Dear esfpaststudent,

Thanks for your sharing. In my opinion, the most important thing is the mode of training by IS is let the student seek for knowledge rather than just race for marks and hence w ...

I don't think that if students do not score high in public exams, overseas elite schools will still keen to accept them.  It is simply not true.  As I see so far, ESF students have to score high to enter elite overseas Us in other countries.

I also don't think that there is any problem with the culture in ESF or other IS schools.  The multi-cultural /international envionment is very valuable and cannot be found in any other bilingual local schools like CKY or Victoria.

tomo

I would like to believe that one of the reasons why IS is better than local schools is that they cultivate 'global citizens' who are accepting of other cultures and differences , who try to reach out to those in society who are not as priviledged or lucky as themselves and then  use their 'privileged' position to make their society and this world a better place.... But if these people are only 'working' for their own selves , building a nice portfolio, getting into an elite university , and then an elite job, and carving a comfortable nest for themselves, feeling superior to local students... than I rreally don't see any difference between the local education system and IS.Maybe I have too high expectations of the IS system.

原文章由 WYmom 於 07-10-15 15:19 硐表


I don't think that if students do not score high in public exams, overseas elite schools will still keen to accept them.  It is simply not true.  As I see so far, ESF students have to score high to  ...

JasonDad

I totally agree with what ToTo said.

Global vision, moral education and thinking skill are far
more important than academic result or a diploma from
an elite unversity.

As a matter of fact, pure honor degree does not
necessarily mean a fortune ( I am not saying higher pay ).
Person who makes a fortune nowadays and deems as
suceessful figure by the public relies on what I mention
above like global vision and thinking skill. No one will ask
Bill gates, Kar Shing Li, or Buffet Warren which university
they graduate from.

If you just expect your kids to be a mere professional, like being a doctor, a lawyer or accountant. I can assure you
that it is not neccesary for you to let your child study in
IS. Local school in Tin Shui Wai will do. Simply pushing
your kids to do more exercises, recite more, do
more past papers before exam and learn more exam skill.
I know lots of professional they graduated from local 屋村
中學, some of them are working for me. No boosting.

I think we should focus on all round education,
arouse our child's studying interest and encourage lift long
education. This I think is a right way contributing a
person's success. That's what IS does better than local
school in my opinion.

Jason Dad

WYmom

原文章由 JasonDad 於 07-10-16 11:58 硐表
I totally agree with what ToTo said.

Global vision, moral education and thinking skill are far
more important than academic result or a diploma from
an elite unversity.

As a matter of fact, pure  ...

I don't think parents can control the kids' future or career, I won't expect what my kids to be, just let them to be what they like to be as long as they are on the right track.  Studying in IS or local depends whether they are suitable or not, and if parents can afford.  If they are capable, they can enter elite Us and lead a good career and life, they can contribute to the society in any job.

As parents, we just try to give the best we can, let the kids have more exposure and experience, enjoy their studies and school lives.  Who knows what will they be in future?

ESF do involve students in a lot of community work, even primary students will help to give some presents to the elderly or poor during X'mas seasons, or do some performance etc.  In secondary schools, students will do volunteer work in their communities or even help people overseas.  Not sure if other IS implement the same.

father_ho

原文章由 WYmom 於 07-10-15 15:19 硐表


I don't think that if students do not score high in public exams, overseas elite schools will still keen to accept them.  It is simply not true.  As I see so far, ESF students have to score high to  ...

Dear WYMom,

Please don't be sensitive or may be I didn't expressed my feeling accurately. I just refer to if for approx. same standard of student, the elite oversea U's will perfer the IS student in regarding their wider exposure on reasoning training and similar atmosphere in the IS. For the culture in IS, I support they preserve their tradition (in fact it is their culture and should not be changed because of admission on local student) . It is my family may not be totally adapting it (such as changing our hobbies) before I change my kids to that type of school. I simply don't want a cultural conflict inside my family in future.

阿胡

Annie123,

恕我孤陋寡聞, 我所講是基於如下幾點:

1) 我大兒子在香港讀IS, 當年算是該校最好幾個畢業生之一, 畢業後進了美國最好的大學之一. 儘管如此, 他的大學數學課程讀得很辛苦.

2) 他的同學, 不少也在美國讀頂級大學, 數學課程也是讀得很辛苦.

3) 見過不少讀本地大學的IS學生, 不客氣地說, 數學很差. 可能本來這些學生在中學時就是差學生.

4) 也見過一些從澳洲, 加拿大, 美國返香港讀大學的學生, 數學慘不忍睹.

5) 見過幾位香港名校畢業生, 不是第一, 第二的學生, 但肯定是當年學校最好的學生之一. 數學不錯. 但進不了美國top 20大學.

所以, 我非常同意esfpaststudent所說, 如果在香港讀IS, 可以進美國頂級大學, 而學費又不是問題, 本地大學根本不須考慮. 而讀IS如是為了將來讀本地大學, 會遇到好多意想不到的(常常是壞的)事情.

當然, 我不是說IS不好, 否則也不會將我小朋友送去讀. 但是, 香港IS在數學的教育上, 確有很多改進的空間.

[ 本文章最後由 阿胡 於 07-10-17 22:13 編輯 ]

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BK 一向卧虎藏龍,高手雲集,

可是最近已少見這些這麼高水平的discussion.

真精彩,可惜我的數學平太差,只能希望從中偷師，幫孩子找到一條容易些的路。

hysterical

Just wanted to provide some insights into the education system in the US. Having gone to junior high school and high school in the states, and then subsequently graduated from UC Berkeley, I think that I will share from experience the math level and also college admissions issue.

1. The students can take different levels of Math in high school according to their individual level. That means that if he is very advanced in math, then he can even take college level math while still in high school. Of course there are always students who are not so good at math, and there are the average ones. But there are always very advanced ones as well. There is really no limit of what they can take in high school. Thus, it's not fair to say that everyone from Australia, Canada, or US are very poor in Math.

2. Admissions to university in the US is not just looking at one subject. Since English is the primary language there, the student's proficiency in English is obviously a critical factor in consideration. Math is also very important, but then so are many other things in the student's portfolio. It is very important to show that he is involved in the community, and have a passion or hobby that he has followed throughout his academic career. It can be a musical instrument or sports or debate or drama, etc. The point is that he needs to show that he has a significant acheivement outside the academics.

For example, a friend of mine had all A's in high school (4.0 GPA), and he did okay on the SAT, but he could not get into the top universities. Why not? Because he was a so-called "nerd", as he did not have any activities outside the school life.

The above reason is probably why IS students in HK have a better chance of admission into the top universities in the US, compared to those who went to a famous local school.

3. In the US, the real academic education begins at the university level. I believe that the previous 12 years are really preparation for the real thing. So, of course the math would be hard. The English is very hard too, and so are other subjects. Also, it depends on what major the student is intended to take. For Science majors, pre-med, pre-engineering, of course math would be very hard. For business majors, the math requirements would be less challenging.

All in all, I think IS and local system both have its own advantages and disadvantages. It really depends on the child's personality and learning style, and also most importantly where he intends to attend university.

Hope the above information is helpful. Cheers!

Paris

Annie,

How do you train your children math, do you give supplementary exercises or extra class. Please share.

原文章由 Annie123 於 07-10-17 11:51 硐表
結果是, local schools培養了大量的會數學運算的"庸才", 而ISs就連這樣的"庸才"都不多   

YOSASHTO

As WYmom said a while back: Why has this discussion, originally about IS education, turned into a discussion on Mathematics?

I believe the strengths of an IS education is beyond that of academics.  IS students are expected to understand the world around them, and be able to relate to events in the real world.  Therefore, instead of churning out "little academics" who can do math problems very quickly, or memorize pages and pages of textbooks and classnotes, students become thinkers, and therefore know their place and can contribute to society at a very young age.

My son is at HKIS Grade 5.  This year, they have to rotate to lead discussions on current events (once every 2 weeks).  They have to pick out a current event, usually from the news (can be local or international), present it to the class, and reflect on how this event affects them, and what they would like to do about it.  From what my son tells me, kids have talked about bigger issues like climate change, species extinction, the HK stock market, etc.  They have also reported on local news issues relating to crime and other wrongdoings.  At the end of the presentation, they have to answer questions from their classmates as well.  They get scored on their presentations, covering not only the content, but their personal reflections as well.  I believe this process helps educate a child who is able to care about his community, and able to independently learn from non-school related events.

Another example is history (they call it Social Studies).  Instead of reading about a certain period of time, they are studying WHY certain events happened, and WHY the leaders at that time made their decisions.  They not only have to learn about a specific person (of their choice within the period of time), they have to understand how that person thinks.  They are expected to act out that person, and put themselves in that person's shoes.  They are given a set of questions which they have to reflect on, relating to how that person would view certain issues.  That, I regard, is the proper way to learn history.  History is all about understanding why past civilizations did certain things, and how these things lead to where they are today.  Reflecting on this, we can understand why people behave the way they do today, thereby gaining a better understanding of our own selves.

While I agree that academics is important, and both my husband and I have first degrees in Engineering, we hardly use math in the academics sense anymore.  The little bit of math we use now are mathematics application in the real world.  Therefore, the ability to apply what was learned in school into real life is much more important than the academics itself.  Also, thinking back, as Annie123 said, there was a lot more language and analytical skills required back in Uni than math skills.

Just my 2 cents worth.  Sorry for such a long post.

[ 本文章最後由 YOSASHTO 於 07-10-18 19:20 編輯 ]

Saturn

hysterical,

Thanks a million for your sharing.  I trust the info. you provided has reflected no less than 99.9% of the truth.:

Saturn.

原文章由 hysterical 於 07-10-17 22:00 硐表
Just wanted to provide some insights into the education system in the US. Having gone to junior high school and high school in the states, and then subsequently graduated from UC Berkeley, I think tha ...

Cayenne

Just received my copy of the 2007 HKIS Annual Report, which contains this year's college acceptance data. Here are only some of the figures  as the complete list is very long :

US Colleges :

Princeton (2)
Harvard (1)
Stanford (3)
Columbia (5)
Cornell (6)
Brown (1)
Dartmouth (1)
Duke (3)
U Penn (3)
WUSTL (6)
U of Chicago (3)
Northwestern (6)
Johns Hopkins (3)
UC Berkeley (4)
UCLA (4)
UC San Diego (10)
U Mitch (5)
USC (10)
Georgetown (4)
Boston U (26)
Carnegie Mellon (11)
NYU (6),    NYU Florence (3)
U of Rochester (3)
Syracuse (11)
Wellesley (1)
Wesleyan (1) ( 宋美齢母校 )
Parsons School of Design ( 8)
Rhode Island School of Design (3)
Purdue (18)
Middlebury (1)
Vassar (4)
Tufts ( 10)
.
.
UK Universities:

Oxford (1)
Cambridge (1)
KCL (1)
Nottingham (1)
Warick (1)
Durham (1)
.
.


Canadian Universities :

Waterloo (2)
UBC (18)
UT (9)
U Western Ontario (6)
Queen's ( 7)
Alberta (1)
Simon Fraser (1)
McGill (5)
York (1)
. . . .

Others :

HKU  (2)
CUHK (1)
Waseda 早稲田大学 ( 1)
Swiss Hotel Management School (1)
Les Roches, Swiss School of Hotel Menagement (1)

[ 本文章最後由 Cayenne 於 07-10-19 23:40 編輯 ]

tnt2ndhb

我大伯早年英皇中學畢業拿全費獎學金到美國伯克萊讀數, 唸完數博留在美國, 從打工到合資軟件開發, 現在在上海已有員工逾千, 他對我們說: 中國人很有做數的精神, 從小就開始題山題海地訓練, 從多、到準、到快、到深, 這和普遍國人認為數學和理科能有較好的出路有關, 也有很多小孩子很快就因為這種永遠高一線的數訓而burn out, 他在大學學數不是求答案, 而是找為甚麼1+1一定=2, 過程好寂寞也很好玩, 他的外國同學不像亞洲同學那麼關心出路的問題, 反而視研究數學為終生事業(不是職業),所以, 為甚麼諾貝爾獎總是外國人多.