教育王國

標題: 孩子的學校沒有中文學，你真是不介意嗎? [打印本頁]

作者: sophievan 時間: 09-2-25 10:38 標題: 孩子的學校沒有中文學，你真是不介意嗎?

大家在屋企真的可以教他們中文嗎? 那普通話呢?

作者: JojoB 時間: 09-2-25 12:01

其實出面有好多地方都有得學普通話的
再唔係　請個導師１對１　

以國際學校幼稚園來講
大多數都只係一個星期有２堂　ＯＲ　每日１５分鐘。。。都唔好期望學到好流利呵

作者: Mighty 時間: 09-2-25 12:02

現在還有学校不教中文嗎？　　連外国人都学中文、生在香港的香港人不学中文、実在講不過去。　　平日怎様生活呢！　　家中自己教当然可以、但学校如果没有這科、小朋友不会想学的。　　不竟英文比較中文容易、如果我是小朋友有得選択、我都不想学中文、起「馬」不用写得太辛苦。

作者: oooray 時間: 09-2-25 12:27

1.魚與熊掌豈可兼得?
2.市場經濟:有需求便有供應;
3.唔怕你冇中文學,只怕你冇錢學;
4.唔怕你有錢學,只怕你冇時間學;
5.唔怕你有時間學,只怕你小朋友冇心機學;
6.到你小朋友學好中文,又怕英文唔得Native;
7.重唱2-7(然後中文改成英文/日文/西班牙文...)

食得鹹魚抵得渴, 讀IS真係有好多缺點(貴;中文差;冇回頭路...好多好多...從略...)
未諗清楚,冇信心得o既會比失既多,千祈唔好亂o黎數

作者: sophievan 時間: 09-2-25 13:04

有時，我們這批父母是不是什麼都係自己唸好，才比個小朋友。

我身邊都有幾個朋友的細佬讀is，但小朋友不想說看中文、讀中文，香港的世界對他們來說是不明白的，因為香港處處以中文為主。去茶樓不會點點心，只會叫父母代筆，又看不起mandarin，總之中不中西不西似的，他們永遠打不入本地圈，全外籍圈子又不入了。英文好，比起local kids, 當然是。
但又未去到西人的水平。

local kids又如何，打開本英文書，不到3秘便close up! 日日為了做功課，為考試，為背默。不會主動看書，不會問問題，我是如此的一代，原來我的親戚的孩子都是同一個模式的!!!

作者: grabheart2004 時間: 09-2-25 14:02

Whether my child could acquire one language at the expense of another is not my major concern in choosing IS. My consideration is whether you believe and trust the education system or simply the teaching methodology my child is exposed to.
Franky speaking, I personally don't like the system in HK, and I don't believe it could be much improved in the near future.
A person could learn whatever language he thinks important to him at any point of his life. The issue is how he perceives its importance and how much effort he is willing to pay. I can see a lot of Westerners speak fluent putonghua...Just cheer up! and let our children grow healthily and happily!

作者: hhy2007 時間: 09-2-25 14:17

如果學校不重視，好像很難在家裡正規地教小孩子學中文。我試了五六年，都沒有成功。雖說以前我小孩讀的國際學校每星期也有兩三堂中文課，但我的小孩始終沒有把學中文當回事，直到現在轉到RC，情況才好一點。我在美國的幾個朋友的小孩，到現在，不管是讀大學還是讀博士，儘管父母都是中國人，但到最後，都沒辦法把中文讀寫學好，他們在家裡跟父母學了十幾二十幾年中文，到最後來來去去也只認一百個字左右。

作者: popolung 時間: 09-2-25 16:59

should post this thread in local school BK and ask if the parent want their kids to learn better English.... can't get both sides of the world at a time.

Yes, I also choose IS because of it teaching methodology, and they will have a much happier school life. That's good enough.

[ 本帖最後由 popolung 於 09-2-25 17:04 編輯 ]

作者: EsmondMaMa 時間: 09-2-25 17:54

Not all IS kids have poor Chinese. It depends on his own character and ability to "absorb" Chinese. My son studies in ESF junior school, but he is quite aggressive in learning Chinese words. When he comes across Chinese words that he doesn't know, he will ask. He's able to read 90% of the words on a "dim sum" sheet and check out the items he wants by himself. Reading menus and those posted sheets on the wall of a HK style cafe is not a difficulty to him at all. He's also interested in reading Chinese newspaper.
Don't worry too much and encourage your kid to read and speak Chinese. I prefer my son to learn better English in school. There's no way that a kid cannot understand or speak Chinese when he is brought up in a Chinese environment. It's just a matter of his willingness to blend in the local culture or not.

作者: almom 時間: 09-2-25 18:14

sophievan 朋友孩子的情形，肯定不是大部份 IS 學生的情形。

我不會否認 IS 學生的中文程度不及本地學校，但我不認為他們都看不起中文。反而，印象中，本地學校都不一定真的都重視中文；本地學校都較重視英文，部份名校更以學校 "英語強" 為傲。在這種環境下，孩子就是學懂認大量中文字又如何？

至於孩子的朋友群，亦不覺得都會有打不入甚麼圈子的問題。其實，話不投機本句多，如果 "唔岩傾"，就算係 "同鄉" 都做唔到朋友。

而英文水平，我更不同意我們就比西方人差。我孩子學校內，語文最強的，華人洋人印度人日本人等都有。

[ 本帖最後由 almom 於 09-2-25 18:16 編輯 ]

作者: EsmondMaMa 時間: 09-2-25 18:30

Most of my piano students study in local band 1 so-called famous schools. There are a lot of times that I come across asking them to write down translation of Italian musical terms. They said to me they prefer to write in English and that their Chinese is not very good. I am quite shocked to hear that and I honestly have to tell them that their English is only fair, and if they say their English is better than Chinese, then their Chinese is extremely poor. They have to ask me to write simple Chinese characters for them because they don't know how to write them!

作者: mirrorng 時間: 09-2-25 19:40

首先大家要明白, 讀國際學校不是為了學 '英文', 而是因為它的 [理念, 教學方法, 教材, 政策...等].

至於學習 '中文', 問題不在學校而在香港, 本地所用的 '繁體' 及 '白話文/廣東話' 根本不夠國際化, 要學就要學 '簡體' 及 '普通話', 但無論國際/本地學校都只當 '普通話' 作為 [語文科], 如果孩子日常生活用不到就很難學得好.

作者: Mighty 時間: 09-2-25 20:02

Chris 我賛成CHRIS説的「首先大家要明白, 讀國際學校不是為了學 '英文', 而是因為它的 [理念, 教學方法, 教材, 政策...等]. 」

但對「至於學習 '中文', 問題不在學校而在香港, 本地所用的 '繁體' 及 '白話文/廣東話' 根本不夠國際化、、、、」就有保留、学習一種外語就可能要看是否国際化、但広東話及繁体字是香港人的一種伝統、是否国際化不緊要。　　

作者: sam/josh 時間: 09-2-25 20:37

原帖由 sophievan 於 09-2-25 13:04 發表
有時，我們這批父母是不是什麼都係自己唸好，才比個小朋友。

我身邊都有幾個朋友的細佬讀is，但小朋友不想說看中文、讀中文，香港的世界對他們來說是不明白的，因為香港處處以中文為主。去茶樓不會點點心，只會叫父母代筆，又看不起mandarin，總之中不中西不西似的，他們永遠打不入本地圈，全外籍圈子又不入了。英文好，比起local kids, 當然是。
但又未去到西人的水平。

local kids又如何，打開本英文書，不到3秘便close up! 日日為了做功課，為考試，為背默。不會主動看書，不會問問題，我是如此的一代，原來我的親戚的孩子都是同一個模式的!!!

讀is既小朋友不想說看中文、讀中文，係事實，因為中文比英文難好多好多好多。
不中不西係事實，所以外國叫"半唐番"，他們很難打入香港本地圈子，但我相信可以打入全外籍圈子。
local kids一樣有英文叻，主動看書，會問問題既小朋友，睇父母點教，睇邊間local 學校，而家唔係間間都填鴨式。

[ 本帖最後由 sam/josh 於 09-2-25 20:38 編輯 ]

作者: mirrorng 時間: 09-2-26 00:41

這樣就要看你想孩子學中文的意義了, 如果想家人溝通得好一點, 那學校冇教的話都可以自己教孩子, 如一起讀報紙, 故事書..等. 如果為將來, 中國都必為世界經濟發展重地, '普通話' 就比較重要, 那就要到校外普通話班學了.

原帖由 Mighty 於 09-2-25 20:02 發表
Chris 我賛成CHRIS説的「首先大家要明白, 讀國際學校不是為了學 '英文', 而是因為它的 [理念, 教學方法, 教材, 政策...等]. 」

但對「至於學習 '中文', 問題不在學校而在香港, 本地所用的 '繁體' 及 '白話文/廣東話 ...

作者: maglo 時間: 09-2-26 00:48

我同意local有好多好學校, 出好多好學生. 我都係香港大, in a way, 我覺得填鴨式work, 不過我最後都係送個女去讀國際. 決定過程都幾痛苦, 尤其我要負責佢的中文教學, 但我深信小朋友對中文是否有興趣要靠家長的努力.

作者: 小謙伯伯 時間: 09-2-26 11:34

原帖由 maglo 於 09-2-26 00:48 發表
我深信小朋友對中文是否有興趣要靠家長的努 ...

所以家長更要「量力而為」。我的觀察是，語文的「家教」是講「文化底子」的，尤其在中文，所以有「書香世家」這回事。底子不足的家長，除非對中文能力要求甚低(例如一般中文報紙大概睇得明都收貨了之類。我自己是以專欄作家程度為標準，希望侄兒長大後有個人的專業之外，還有能力以文字與國人分享人生閱歷，所以不在此列)，否則還是交由學校作主力，自己從旁協助穩妥。

談到書香世家，就說這兩天有「遺作」《小團圓》出版的張愛玲吧。張愛玲在上海著名的貴族女校《聖瑪利堂》就讀，學校除了一科國文之外是全英語的，情況就像我們的IS，加上在校寄宿，英語環境更是有過之而無不及。後來她在香港大學英文系讀了兩年，因戰亂返回上海，才二十一二就為英文雜誌寫稿，賣文為生，可見英語造詣了得。

那麼這個號稱二十世紀的中國才女，才二十三四就寫出《金鎖記》、《傾城之戀》等名作的張愛玲，她的中文是哪裡修練出來的呢？答案就是「家底」。

不是金錢的家底(雖然她父親是坐吃家財的二世祖，但金錢只用在抽鴉片和養姨太太，沒多用在子女身上)，而是文化的家底。張愛玲的父親在其他方面沒大理會她，但因為爛讀詩書，而且大得閒，所以興之所至時就會跟她談文論詩。而且因為家裡藏書豐富，七八歲還未入學的她，已讀了不少經典，三國紅樓不在話下，連「禁書」金瓶梅也已涉擸。因為有這樣的一個文化底子，才有日後在上海文壇橫空出世的張愛玲。

作者: mosesdaddy 時間: 09-2-26 13:38

Learning Chinese in IS would seem a hard nut to crack.  However, as some of you have pointed out, it also depends on a no. of factors such as the home environment.

When I was leaving for work this morning, I heard my kid correcting my wife who was reading a Chinese book with him in Cantonese (my kid said 東倒西歪 as my wife said 東歪西倒).  I thought that perhaps the book was written in Mandarin or Putonghua (you know there are some variations in expressions in Cantonese and Putonghua such as 質素 vs 素質, 韆鞦 vs 鞦韆, etc).

My kid takes a keen interest in reading both Chinese and English books.  Thanks to my full-time wife who helps cultivate his reading habit.

What I wish to illustrate is that given a suitable language environment, kids can still learn Chinese in a happy way, despite it is relatively more difficult to master than English.  For a kindergarten kid like my son, we can expose him/her to everyday Chinese, e.g. ordering from a food menu (my kid can read out many items from a Chinese menu and he likes to choose the food for himself).  Another example is that my kid is interested in looking up words in Chinese and English dictionaries when he encounters unfamiliar ones (again this was at first encouraged by my wife).

Of course, as parents we have to devote our time and effort in this respect.

作者: steamball 時間: 09-2-26 14:02

mosesdaddy
your boy studies in which kinder? as I remember you give up ESF's offer

作者: mosesdaddy 時間: 09-2-26 19:19

See my PM.

原帖由 steamball 於 09-2-26 14:02 發表
mosesdaddy
your boy studies in which kinder? as I remember you give up ESF's offer

作者: Miclint 時間: 09-2-27 10:41

Dear EsmondMama,

Which year is your son in the ESF junior school now? What program outside school do you adopt to help him learn Chinese or do you teach him Chinese all by yourself?

Please share.

My son is going to ESF junior school P1 this coming August and I am pretty concerned about his Chinese learning in the future.

Thank you.

原帖由 EsmondMaMa 於 09-2-25 17:54 發表
Not all IS kids have poor Chinese. It depends on his own character and ability to "absorb" Chinese. My son studies in ESF junior school, but he is quite aggressive in learning Chinese words. When h ...

作者: EsmondMaMa 時間: 09-2-27 12:21

He's in P.5 now. I sent him to Kumon Chinese when he was P.1 (simplified characters), but he requested to stop at the end of year 4 as he said the Chinese in school was more difficult than the Kumon Chinese he's learning. I didn't teach him Chinese myself, but whenever he asks us about Chinese words, we will answer him. As far as I remember, they have daily Mandarin lesson from P.4.

原帖由 Miclint 於 09-2-27 10:41 發表
Dear EsmondMama,

Which year is your son in the ESF junior school now? What program outside school do you adopt to help him learn Chinese or do you teach him Chinese all by yourself?

Please share.

M ...

[ 本帖最後由 EsmondMaMa 於 09-2-27 12:23 編輯 ]

作者: Miclint 時間: 09-2-27 15:49

Dear EsmondMama,

1) Oh really? You son stopped Kumon Chinese because of that. Quite impressed! Would you mind share with me which ESF junior school is your son attending?

2) How does he respond to Traditional Chinese that everyday he can read in Hong Kong? Can we recognise the words in Traditional format? I don't think the school teaches this. But is he interested of learning the Traditional characters?

3) If you could choose again, will you give him Kumon Chinese in Simplified characters, or Traditional characters? I am planning to give him Kumon but am struggling about Simp. v.s. Trad.

Please share.

Thank you.

原帖由 EsmondMaMa 於 09-2-27 12:21 發表
He's in P.5 now. I sent him to Kumon Chinese when he was P.1 (simplified characters), but he requested to stop at the end of year 4 as he said the Chinese in school was more difficult than the Kumon ...

作者: EsmondMaMa 時間: 09-2-27 18:59

1) KJS

2) I don't think he's bothered by traditional or simplified characters. He can read both without problem, but can only write simplified. Reading whichever version is ok to him, but I guess he prefers to write simplified simply because they have less strokes.

3) If I have to choose again, I will still choose simplified because this is what they have in school. I don't want to make life difficult for him. He will naturally pick up traditional Chinese when being brought up in this social environment.

原帖由 Miclint 於 09-2-27 15:49 發表
Dear EsmondMama,

1) Oh really? You son stopped Kumon Chinese because of that. Quite impressed! Would you mind share with me which ESF junior school is your son attending?

2) How does he respond to T ...

[ 本帖最後由 EsmondMaMa 於 09-2-27 19:03 編輯 ]

作者: Miclint 時間: 09-3-3 13:26

Dear Esmondmama: Thank you for your experience sharing.

作者: maglo 時間: 09-3-5 18:54

我想父母送小孩到國際學校, 大多是因為希望他們可以愉快地學習而又有計劃送他們到外國升讀大學, 所以是否認同國際學校的教學理念是很重要的, Local 也有很多英文強的學生。
作為中國人我也覺懂中文很重要, 家長有很大責任, 有文化家底學習起來可能是事半功倍, 但我想教得其法才是竅門。
光是跟小孩讀報章、講故事成效不大, 原來是有原因的。我曾跟一資深中文老師詳談, 他有一位學生, 嘴巴很會說話, 背誦了得, 但當默書時便露底了, 如公園的"園"字, 他只會寫外框, "長" 跟 "套" 也是只會寫部分, 看到"套大"他會讀成"長大", 可說他是文盲。 (寫-原來是很重要的, 但我絕對不贊成低班便要小孩寫字。)
我又問為什麼先教"人、口、山、日..." 而不是 "太、入、子...", 原來老師要先教部首, 打好根底, 日後學如何做字、每個字的意思, 如 "山峰" 為什麼不是 "山鋒" 等。
抱歉寫多了, 總括, 每位國際學校學生的家長, 如想子女學好中文, 不要氣餒, 在教他們前想一想, 多詢問身邊朋友, 持之以恆, 我想一定可以, 共勉之!

作者: RAA 時間: 09-3-6 18:24

原帖由 almom 於 09-2-25 18:14 發表
sophievan 朋友孩子的情形，肯定不是大部份 IS 學生的情形。

我不會否認 IS 學生的中文程度不及本地學校，但我不認為他們都看不起中文。反而，印象中，本地學校都不一定真的都重視中文；本地學校都較重視英文，部份名校更以學校 ...

作者: dad1234 時間: 09-3-6 19:11

原帖由 hhy2007 於 09-2-25 14:17 發表
如果學校不重視，好像很難在家裡正規地教小孩子學中文。我試了五六年，都沒有成功。雖說以前我小孩讀的國際學校每星期也有兩三堂中文課，但我的小孩始終沒有把學中文當回事，直到現在轉到RC，情況才好一點。我在美國的幾個朋友 ...

同意...我有幾個親戚朋友都是這樣...

作者: 小謙伯伯 時間: 09-3-9 08:41

今天《蘋果》副刊左丁山在專欄〈GG細語〉談到一個IS家長恆常關心和討論的問題，貼上來給大家參考。

識中文

素不相識之美國報紙記者打電話 o黎，要求訪問講匯豐。左丁山為之愕然，問佢點解，記者報上名來，話係老闆（上司）編輯Ｐ吩咐 o既。咦，講起先至記得，與編輯Ｐ不曾見面。起碼有五至七年，仲以為佢已經奉調回國，在紐約返工 o忝。既然係編輯Ｐ推介，唔見唔好意思，於是與呢位記者Ｃ見面。

問記者Ｃ做咗幾耐，佢話出道不久。香港父母，在多倫多出生長大，普林斯頓大學歷史系畢業，因為在普林斯頓學過普通話與中文簡體字，於是紐約方面派佢返香港做記者。識中文就有呢個好處，如果淨係講英文叻唔叻，普林斯頓多的是。記者小Ｂ同樣在多倫多長大，入讀芝加哥大學，但因為唔識中文，返到 o黎香港就吃虧不少。另外有幾位世姪、世姪女自中一開始就到英國讀書，劍橋 / 牛津 /LSE 等學校畢業，但同樣寫讀中文好唔掂，考政府 EO 或 AO 一定肥佬，佢哋本是醒目叻人，有國際視野，言談勝過本地大學畢業生，無奈不識講廣東話，唔入得政府，今時今日，嘥料也。

記者Ｃ識得中文，本來是優點，但原來佢只識簡體字，左丁山畀本「香港金融史」之類書本佢睇，佢似乎睇唔明，有困難，即係話睇本地報紙唔多得啦，作為外國報紙記者，未嘗唔係有所損失。左丁山以為學中文要學繁體字，識繁體字，到大陸睇簡體字，十分容易上手，反之，在學校（例如漢基）學中文，只學簡體字，將來十分吃虧。奉勸一啲家長，如果你成日埋怨香港學校差，香港教育唔掂，你要將仔女送去英美澳加讀小學中學大學 o既話，唔該叫佢哋在外學好繁體字。

記者Ｃ不愧名校出身，名報訓練，問得有板有眼，可造之材也，多口問佢人工有幾多，原來係本地同行中文記者而又係年資相近者 o既兩倍，唔怪得對工作如此投入。記者Ｃ留下名片，立即打電話畀編輯Ｐ，編輯Ｐ話好鍾意香港，唔經唔覺已在港工作近二十年，相信以後唔會返美國，會在港退休，有佢在，佢張報紙寫香港問題，有時係十分到肉 o既。

作者: mattsmum 時間: 09-3-9 13:47

"記者Ｃ .. 只識簡體字，作為外國報紙記者，未嘗唔係有所損失。...

記者Ｃ ..人工有幾多，原來係本地同行中文記者而又係年資相近者 o既兩倍 "

Haha, not cmpatible with our local elite in chinese standard but earn much more. what does this means?

作者: Onsen 時間: 09-3-9 19:34

To answer the original question:  I do mind.  In fact, I am desperately looking for solution.  Transfer from ESF to a comparable school is an option.  But which one?

The problem is:  how often can the local graduates get into Princeton easily?  I met one got into MIT through HKIS though.  May be some of the elite schools like DBS, DGS.. do.  Have you met anyone studying at local schools got into Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT...  Just curious.

This is really the basic question:  how prepare is the local educational system are in meeting the challenge of the 21st century?

[ 本帖最後由 Onsen 於 09-3-9 19:35 編輯 ]

作者: Mighty 時間: 09-3-9 19:50

As someone suggested in another thread, SIS is a very good school with a good balance of both Chinese and English. So that will be a similar kind of school that you can transfer from ESF. Also RC seems paying more effort on teaching Chinese lanugage than other ISs. That might be another option too.

作者: sunflowersg 時間: 09-3-9 23:26

just want to point out that at abroad the most widely used font is Simplified Chinese. I learn Simplified Chinese b4, but i totally hv no problem in recognize Traditional Chinese, i think vice versa.

作者: Onsen 時間: 09-3-10 10:25

Just bought a DVD which contains of many Putonghua songs for kids. My spouse told me that the accent is perfect, as what they say in Beijing. I am going to let my child to start singing all the songs. But the words are in simplified Chinese. In the long run, people who doesn't write or read simplfied Chinese will be in great disadvantage.

作者: BookloverJ 時間: 09-3-10 11:11

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作者: EsmondMaMa 時間: 09-3-10 12:12

My son watches potunghua Doraemon series.

作者: kaka2000 時間: 09-3-10 13:26 標題: 回覆 # 的文章

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作者: buu0605 時間: 09-3-10 17:09

I want to know too. Can you tell or pm? thanks.

原帖由 kaka2000 於 09-3-10 13:26 發表
Hi EsmondMaMa,

Can we buy potunghua Doraemon DVD in HK? If not, where did you buy. Thanks a lot.

作者: EsmondMaMa 時間: 09-3-11 17:45

Daddy bought them in China. I don't think you can get them in HK.

作者: popolung 時間: 09-3-14 19:29

just saw this on Cable TV, looks like interesting:

http://kidschineseclub.com/

歡迎光臨教育王國 (/)