教育王國
標題: 派不到M1 或M2數 [打印本頁]
作者: mak 時間: 11-7-16 23:10 標題: 派不到M1 或M2數
小兒今天9月升中四, 已獲派的科目是第1志願Phy, Chem & Biog, 但派不到M1 or M2數, 這對將來大學選科不是太好, 應怎樣做好呢? 轉校還是有其他較好的建議?
作者: talknwrite 時間: 11-7-17 08:19
沒有數,比較難入工程學系.
不過如果子女本身數學都只屬一般的話, 比佢讀都未必會有好成績.
作者: 漢堡飽 時間: 11-7-17 13:29
我覺得有點吃虧，有些大學科目確要有M1, M2，是否令郎數學未算是最好的一班嗎？M1,M2真的是不容易，唔係想讀就得。如果數學只是一般或比及格好少少，我認為唔讀無損失，集中火力在理科吧。
作者: overview 時間: 11-7-17 13:59
當然冇咁好, 除非本身小朋友數底好差或完全冇興趣. 你地學校係唔係計ranking而優先揀科? 我覺得phy, chem, M1 or M2最理想.
原帖由 mak 於 11-7-16 23:10 發表 
小兒今天9月升中四, 已獲派的科目是第1志願Phy, Chem & Biog, 但派不到M1 or M2數, 這對將來大學選科不是太好, 應怎樣做好呢? 轉校還是有其他較好的建議?
...
作者: mak 時間: 11-7-17 16:48
學校M1和M2只有80個位(即2班),只選數學分數最高的80位同學選讀.
作者: lk362 時間: 11-7-17 20:55
如果真係好想讀,不如問下學校可唔可以自修.
作者: mak 時間: 11-7-17 22:52
學校已說如你們自修, 學校方面不會幫我們報考文憑試.因為小兒3科也是修讀理科, 不能讀M1/M2 數, 感有點可惜.
作者: gigivinda 時間: 11-7-18 00:15
要看你兒子學校的水平，如果是band1頭的中學，八十名也不錯，沒有M1/M2就可惜了，應該轉校，眼光要遠些。如果是band3學校，八十名就可能代表你兒子數學水平不夠，讀了也吃力。
[ 本帖最後由 gigivinda 於 11-7-18 00:17 編輯 ]
作者: winnie211 時間: 11-7-18 00:35
其實如果讀phy ,chem 的話 ,有M1 M2輔助一下的確好好多 .而大學也有些科目要求修讀M1 或M2的 .但如果囝囝本身數學底子不錯 ,又不打算讀那些要求M1M2的課程 ,也沒什麼影響 .(不過始終有M1M2輔助的讀phy比較著數)
作者: ha8mo 時間: 11-7-18 10:54
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作者: mak 時間: 11-7-18 18:11
他暫時沒有想到如可升上大學, 會讀什麼科目, 但某些科目如指定要修M1/M2數的, 根本不能報, 所以選擇方面會少一點, 如果中四轉直資學校, 我不知道會有那間直資學校會收中四插班, 因最近問過一間直資學校, 她們回答是不收中四插班生. 所以真是很苦惱.如繼續升讀原本的中學, 將來大學會有什麼好的科目給他選擇?
作者: 20091 時間: 11-7-18 20:56
學校既然派得Phy, Chem & Biog,
咁你的仔成績應該幾好啦!
轉校應該幾有機會,
phy要計算,最好有m2,
我仔有科phy但只係讀m1,都唔知點好.. 好鬼煩,
作者: 漢堡飽 時間: 11-7-18 21:38
我唔覺得讀M1就比M2差，兩者是有分別，但不是程度分別，M1重統計，M2重方程，應按子女在那一方面優秀才選，不是M2高過M1。完全是錯覺！
要轉校實在好難，除非孩子特別優秀。既然無心儀的學系，就讀好PHY, CHEM, BIO三科，按大學的收生要求選科，不一定無M12就無好的學系。
我估你應早知要全級數學80名內才讀到M1,M2，為什麼中二時不多下功夫，對不起，80名後數學的分數是多少呢？可以給我們知道嗎？
作者: ha8mo 時間: 11-7-18 23:13
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作者: LittleKidult 時間: 11-7-18 23:58
8月頭先知選科結果................
作者: lovelyec 時間: 11-7-19 10:57
嘩! 都好遲喎! 其實我都好想知數學應該要有幾多分先至好修M1 or M2.
原帖由 LittleKidult 於 11-7-18 23:58 發表
8月頭先知選科結果................
作者: ANChan59 時間: 11-7-19 13:19
M2 > M1 is based on the expert report of HKDSE in UCAS. If your kid may study in UK, you need to be careful.
I know two boys in QC and SPCC, they switched from M2 to M1 after a month of study at F4.
作者: ANChan59 時間: 11-7-19 13:23
Different schools have different appraoches:
1. Set the quota for M1 & M2, top 80 only,
2. If you pass F3 maths and you can choose M1 or M2, base on form ranking, first come first serve,
3. ........
作者: ZZdaphne 時間: 11-7-19 14:15
原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-7-19 13:19 發表
I know two boys in QC and SPCC, they switched from M2 to M1 after a month of study at F4. ...
知道原因嗎?
會不會是學習問題吧??
M2 是否程度高些???
作者: cow 時間: 11-7-19 15:02
原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-7-19 13:19 發表
M2 > M1 is based on the expert report of HKDSE in UCAS. If your kid may study in UK, you need to be careful.
I just looked at the may-be-not-updated table at http://www.ucas.ac.uk/students/ucas_tariff/factsheet/hkdip
and was lazy to look into the report.
The report does mention M2>M1 but in HK M2=M1, therefore it's still better to study M1 unless one's maths is very good.
作者: ANChan59 時間: 11-7-19 15:19
原帖由 ZZdaphne 於 11-7-19 14:15 發表
知道原因嗎?
會不會是學習問題吧??
M2 是否程度高些???
The SPCC boy aims for medicine, M1 can save his time to study other subjects and medicine only request science subjects, extended module not necessary M2.
QC boy knows the time usage for M2 > M1, as he needs to take extend module after school. He told me that school lessons are fully occupied by other subjects...... His father surprised by the time estimation from EDB on NSS ......
M2 definitely higher than M1 from the expert report as follow.
http://www.ucas.com/documents/tariff/tariff_reports/hkdipreport.pdf
Quote
With regards to the differences in the allocation of UCAS Tariff points to the two extension modules, the HE auditor did not find sufficient evidence to confirm that the material in the calculus and statistics module is not matched to comparable material in the mathematics GCE A level. In the case of module 2 some material matches to GCE A level further mathematics which could explain why it is viewed as being more demanding and a better preparation for progression to UK HE (Higher Education).
One of the principles of the Tariff is not to allocate different numbers of UCAS Tariff points across individual subjects in a suite of qualifications. Thus, if no distinction is made between GCE A level mathematics and further mathematics, then the same principle should be applied here.
Unqoute
The admission officer knows the difference in UK and/or HK.
[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-7-19 22:49 編輯 ]
作者: eviepa 時間: 11-7-19 22:24
數學 M1(微積分與統計)，數學 M2(微積分與代數)
一般而言，代數較抽象，理論性較強；統計學較具體，應用性較強。所以代數較深是合理的。不過，M1和M2都會很深，數學有番咁上下先好讀。
作者: 漢堡飽 時間: 11-7-19 22:51 標題: 回復 1# eviepa 的帖子
極之同意。
作者: com7hk 時間: 11-7-20 11:30 標題: 回覆 13# mak 的文章
you can try ngai po ling, as what i know from my son, he said some new classmates came from other school, or others came from china.
作者: ZZdaphne 時間: 11-7-20 13:48
想知道
--讀engineering是否一定要有讀Phy & M1 or M2,
咁唔諗住讀engineering是否可以唔讀phy & M1 or 2.
請指教, 謝謝.
[ 本帖最後由 ZZdaphne 於 11-7-20 13:50 編輯 ]
作者: BillyM 時間: 11-7-20 14:23
"M1和M2都會很深，數學有番咁上下先好讀"
極之同意 x 2
原帖由 eviepa 於 11-7-19 22:24 發表
數學 M1(微積分與統計)，數學 M2(微積分與代數)
一般而言，代數較抽象，理論性較強；統計學較具體，應用性較強。所以代數較深是合理的。不過，M1和M2都會很深，數學有番咁上下先好讀。 ...
作者: ANChan59 時間: 11-7-20 14:24
原帖由 ZZdaphne 於 11-7-20 13:48 發表
想知道
--讀engineering是否一定要有讀Phy & M1 or M2,
咁唔諗住讀engineering是否可以唔讀phy & M1 or 2.
請指教, 謝謝.
I guess your question focus on HK universities, I try to share some info or observation along the line.
All engineering programs are accredited by HKIE, the assessors will focus on Physics and Maths, particularly in 334. In 334, students take one year less in both subjects, and Maths also divided into streams M1 & M2. Universities also know M2 is more advance than M1 and they prefer M2, but they relax their min. requirement to M1 or M2 for student admission reason, as nowaday engineering is not the first choice of smart students.
For Economics and Quantitative Finance (may be more), also need M1 or M2. You better double confirm with the university's admission office before finalise your subject selection decision.
作者: JP 時間: 11-7-20 14:39 標題: 回復 3# ZZdaphne 的帖子
Check this link for universities admission requirements. Some require M1 or M2, some prefer M1 or M2.
http://334.edb.hkedcity.net/doc/chi/ER_of_UGC_c.pdf
作者: ZZdaphne 時間: 11-7-20 14:55
原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-7-20 14:24 發表
I guess your question focus on HK universities, I try to share some info or observation along the line.
All engineering programs are accredited by HKIE, the assessors will focus on Physics and Math ...
ANChan59
thanks.
選科已落實了, 只是怕女兒應付唔到....
養兒100歲, 長憂99...
作者: ZZdaphne 時間: 11-7-20 15:20
JP
謝謝提供資料,
給女兒好好思考思考.
[ 本帖最後由 ZZdaphne 於 11-7-20 15:22 編輯 ]
作者: 88muimui 時間: 11-7-20 16:21 標題: 回復 1# ZZdaphne 的帖子
ZZ, 你女還未揀科?
作者: ZZdaphne 時間: 11-7-20 16:29
原帖由 88muimui 於 11-7-20 16:21 發表
ZZ, 你女還未揀科?
選科已落實了, 只是怕女兒應付唔到....
會讀Phy + M1
見其他家長分享, 有點擔心已矣....
[ 本帖最後由 ZZdaphne 於 11-7-20 16:45 編輯 ]
作者: ANChan59 時間: 11-7-20 16:51
原帖由 ZZdaphne 於 11-7-20 16:29 發表
選科已落實了, 只是怕女兒應付唔到....
會讀Phy + M1
見其他家長分享, 有點擔心已矣....
Some parents' kid only take core Maths, M1 & M2 of course too difficult for them......
Physics + M1 should be ok .... take it easy
作者: ZZdaphne 時間: 11-7-20 17:38
原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-7-20 16:51 發表
Some parents' kid only take core Maths, M1 & M2 of course too difficult for them......
Physics + M1 should be ok .... take it easy
謝謝您..明白了..
兩科是相輔相成嗎?
那就讓她試著看吧.
作者: ANChan59 時間: 11-7-20 21:21
原帖由 ZZdaphne 於 11-7-20 17:38 發表
謝謝您..明白了..
兩科是相輔相成嗎?
那就讓她試著看吧.
Yes, its a good match.
作者: mio8390 時間: 11-7-20 22:09
囝囝選了M2
作者: snowbell 時間: 11-7-21 00:39 標題: 回復 36# mak 的帖子
派到Phy, Chem, Bio, 數底應不差, 但連M1都不派, 又唔比自修, 真無奈!
現在分科還要看自己學校夠不夠資源, 得80個位就80個讀M1,M2, 分數夠都無位.
先有機會，嘗試才知自己行不行.
作者: snowbell 時間: 11-7-21 00:48 標題: 回復 33# mak 的帖子
學校選學生讀M1, M2, 是根據全科級名次，還是數學科的級名次?
我自己就覺得應該用數學科的級名次.
作者: mak 時間: 11-7-21 00:51
現在只有希望他盡量讀好phy,chem,biog 這3科,到時可以入到大學,
作者: 漢堡飽 時間: 11-7-21 10:03
原帖由 snowbell 於 11-7-21 00:48 發表
學校選學生讀M1, M2, 是根據全科級名次，還是數學科的級名次?
我自己就覺得應該用數學科的級名次.
同意！
作者: snowbell 時間: 11-7-21 10:20 標題: 回復 2# mak 的帖子
唔好放棄，試試同校方聯絡，可不可以在校讀M1.
一日未開學, 還有變數.
Sorry, 忘記了文憑試的科目, 除公開試的分數再加學校平時分, 所以無得自修.
看來比會考更無彈度.
[ 本帖最後由 snowbell 於 11-7-21 16:03 編輯 ]
作者: ANChan59 時間: 11-7-21 12:33
原帖由 snowbell 於 11-7-21 10:20 發表
唔好放棄，試試同校方聯絡，可不可以在校讀或自修M1. (學校行政都要有彈度)
有些學生只派maths core, 但出外補習社修M1, 再報考試.
一日未開學, 還有變數. ...
I assume M1 also need continuous assessment, how can a tuition centre provide that??? My assumption is valid or not??
作者: gigivinda 時間: 11-7-21 13:52
原帖由 mak 於 11-7-21 00:51 發表
現在只有希望他盡量讀好phy,chem,biog 這3科,到時可以入到大學,
哎呀，真是忍不住要出句聲，不是大學收了就夠，要在大學讀得自在才成，也要大學畢業以后考專業試得心應手才成。沒有了calculus （M1/M2), Econ, Finance, Accounting, Physics, Insurance etc 都會讀得吃力。建議：不考試也要自修。
作者: mio8390 時間: 11-7-21 14:15
多數是選數學科的前60名或80名，要看看每班收學生多少，當然是成績好的學生選擇M1或M2先。
原帖由 漢堡飽 於 11-7-21 10:03 發表
同意！
作者: snowbell 時間: 11-7-21 17:33
很有道理!
學問永遠是自己.
等於讀醫無話要Bio, 但有學過Bio在學習上某方面又好些.
原帖由 gigivinda 於 11-7-21 13:52 發表
哎呀，真是忍不住要出句聲，不是大學收了就夠，要在大學讀得自在才成，也要大學畢業以后考專業試得心應手才成。沒有了calculus （M1/M2), Econ, Finance, Accounting, Physics, Insurance etc 都會讀得吃力。建議：不考試也要 ...
作者: snowbell 時間: 11-7-21 17:40
如果剛巧自己讀那級勁人多，豈不爭M1,M2爭得你死我活, 合資格讀M1,M2有90人, 而得80個位, 最後那10人點算?
原帖由 mio8390 於 11-7-21 14:15 發表
多數是選數學科的前60名或80名，要看看每班收學生多少，當然是成績好的學生選擇M1或M2先。
作者: ANChan59 時間: 11-7-21 17:58
原帖由 snowbell 於 11-7-21 17:40 發表
如果剛巧自己讀那級勁人多，豈不爭M1,M2爭得你死我活, 合資格讀M1,M2有90人, 而得80個位, 最後那10人點算?
I heard from a friend that his son is the 2nd batch of 334, and his school is a "B-1" school. also top 80 in Maths can take M1 or M2. At the end, close to half drop out from extended modules.
作者: JP 時間: 11-7-21 23:02
原帖由 snowbell 於 11-7-21 10:20 發表
唔好放棄，試試同校方聯絡，可不可以在校讀M1.
一日未開學, 還有變數.
Sorry, 忘記了文憑試的科目, 除公開試的分數再加學校平時分, 所以無得自修.
看來比會考更無彈度. ...
For Maths and M1/M2 HKDSE, no School Base Assessment is required.
作者: mio8390 時間: 11-7-22 09:39
依個世界一定有有幸有不幸，如果只能取得最低資格，入到可能未必一定好事，所以是讀不到是不幸還是幸運，要將來才知。
如果本身十分喜歡這科，也不應該取得這種分數，取得高分的同學一定比低分的更加喜歡，所以他們更加用功。
原帖由 snowbell 於 11-7-21 17:40 發表
如果剛巧自己讀那級勁人多，豈不爭M1,M2爭得你死我活, 合資格讀M1,M2有90人, 而得80個位, 最後那10人點算?
作者: cow 時間: 11-7-22 10:06
原帖由 gigivinda 於 11-7-21 13:52 發表
哎呀，真是忍不住要出句聲，不是大學收了就夠，要在大學讀得自在才成，也要大學畢業以后考專業試得心應手才成。沒有了calculus （M1/M2), Econ, Finance, Accounting, Physics, Insurance etc 都會讀得吃力。建議：不考試也要自修。
Agree if one's target subjects in U are Econ, Finance, Accounting, Physics, Engineering, and Insurance etc.
作者: ha8mo 時間: 11-7-22 10:46
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作者: mio8390 時間: 11-7-22 13:22
我地以前讀書，大部份學生和文科生都沒有讀附加數，只有數學成績好的一班人可以修讀A math。
作者: 雙儿 時間: 11-7-22 14:34
原帖由 cow 於 11-7-22 10:06 發表
Agree if one's target subjects in U are Econ, Finance, Accounting, Physics, Engineering, and Insurance etc.
I'll revise the list to quantitative finance(not finance as in BBA), risk management, maths/physics-related science majors and engineering. Accounting does not need calculus at undergraduate level.
If your kid aims at quantitative finance or risk management, he is probably a top 2-3 percent student, we do not need to discuss further.
If he aims at maths/physics-related majors or engineering, he has to take M1/M2. If his grades are not good enough to take M1/M2, he can then only consider other majors. It does not mean the end of the world as currently no 恆商 students can read quantitative finance or risk management as they are not allowed to take pure mathematics at A level (this is probably one of the tactics used by the principal to avoid unnecessary competition with traditional elite schools).
For students aiming at other majors, why bother with M1/M2 which takes up much more time than other subjects and at the same time is not counted as a full subject. You are competing with better students as well.
One can always learn more maths after getting into university. And it is more relevant for PhD studies.
[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-7-22 14:37 編輯 ]
作者: ha8mo 時間: 11-7-22 17:16
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作者: 雙儿 時間: 11-7-22 17:31
原帖由 ha8mo 於 11-7-22 17:16 發表
即係話
改完學制都冇用
D學校自己冇進取心
其實自HKAL有左AS Maths and Stat後
已經多了Bio組或商組人有得在中六繼續讀數
現在反而倒退了
You can see it the other way. In the past, students could avoid maths totally after HKCEE. They did not have to be good in maths to be admitted to university. Now, maths is a compulsory subject through the end of F6 and you cannot choose to igore it if you want to have good grades for applying to university.
We are just switching from English-styled education to more American-styled education which emphasizes on one's overall ability.
[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-7-22 17:35 編輯 ]
作者: ha8mo 時間: 11-7-22 22:32
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作者: 雙儿 時間: 11-7-23 00:52
原帖由 ha8mo 於 11-7-22 22:32 發表
It is the same.
In both systems, a student must pass at least one Maths exam, a very easy exam.
It's not the same.
Students not good at maths in the past could manage a presentable "C" in maths in HKCEE and went on to concentrate on other subjects at A level. But now a less than good grade in maths will affect the chance of getting into university directly.
It is a common misconception to see maths as easy and additional maths as more difficult. Look at the % of getting grade A in maths and additional maths. Arguably, it is more difficult to get an A in maths than in additional maths. Questions in section B of the maths paper can be quite daunting and more difficult to prepare than A maths which contains questions usually repeated from past exams.
作者: BookloverJ 時間: 11-7-23 08:50
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作者: khmama524 時間: 11-7-23 10:30
雙儿 , please check pm. Thanks!
作者: cow 時間: 11-7-23 17:13
HKCEE A.Maths is definately more difficult than Maths.
作者: 雙儿 時間: 11-7-23 17:44
原帖由 BookloverJ 於 11-7-23 08:50 發表
我諗你既認知係錯既, 無論邊張paper, Maths 比起 Amaths. 都係淺易好多.
"Look at the % of getting grade A in maths and additional maths. Arguably, it is more difficult to get an A in maths than in addi ...
Everyone knows the topics of additional maths are more advanced than maths, including me. I'm not referring to the adsolute difficulty of the questions in the paper per se. When I say a paper is easy or difficult, I refer to the relative difficulty in getting a good grade.
But some questions in section B of maths paper are close to impossible under exam conditions. For example, among the students I know who got A in maths, none of them attempted the question of circles in section B.
Maths paper is a compulsory paper and is therefore bound to comprise some idiot questions for less able students, but it does not mean everyone can get a good grade. After all, only around 4% of candidates get an A, it can hardly be described as an "easy" subject. If the percentage of getting an A(A*) was close to 30% like maths under IGCSE, I would call it easy.
[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-7-23 17:51 編輯 ]
作者: 雙儿 時間: 11-7-23 18:11
原帖由 khmama524 於 11-7-23 10:30 發表
雙儿 , please check pm. Thanks!
Answered. Usually my advice comprises two parts: the factual part, which I try every bit to be correct, and the opinion part, which, as you may now know, is full of personal biases. You can of course choose to ignore them (but at your peril).
[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-7-23 18:12 編輯 ]
作者: snowbell 時間: 11-7-23 18:30 標題: 回復 13# mio8390 的帖子
我意思是指多出的10個人，數學分底都高,可承接M1,M2的課程, 而不能選的話, 太可惜.
由小五,小六的呈分試都知遊戲規則, 但選科會直接影響學生升讀大學的選科及海外升學.
升上高中的學生, 思想上會比初中時成熟, 想發奮上進的學生, 如無M1,M2, 總覺抹殺他們的機會, 最低限度比M1他們試.
F.4 - F.6 兩年半的時間, 轉變可以很大.
作者: cow 時間: 11-7-23 22:47
原帖由 雙儿 於 11-7-23 17:44 發表
Everyone knows the topics of additional maths are more advanced than maths, including me. I'm not referring to the adsolute difficulty of the questions in the paper per se. When I say a paper is easy or difficult, I refer to the relative difficulty in getting a good grade.
In terms of absolute difficulty and the difficulty to get a good grade. A.Maths is more difficult than Maths.
For the same batch of students taking A.Maths and Maths, the percentage of students getting good grades in Maths must be greater than that in A. Maths.
[ 本帖最後由 cow 於 11-7-23 22:59 編輯 ]
作者: BookloverJ 時間: 11-7-24 01:27
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作者: eviepa 時間: 11-7-24 09:48
如果孩子是最強的十個八個巴仙學生，平日非常勤力，喜歡接受挑戰，選修M1M2自然如虎添翼。
但不幸地，你們的子女是border line case的三四十個巴仙的能力，能否入U，端視乎未來幾年的造化的話，選不選修M1M2就要想清楚了。
小弟中學時雖然未讀過A Maths，但知道這個水平的微積分、代數、統計學是個無底深潭。有可能讀一科所需的時間（所需時間多少，很視乎學生IQ），等於幾倍歷史、地理等科所需的時間。
如果不讀M1M2，將所騰出來的時間用作溫習別的科目，能入大學的機會較大。讀M1M2，如果入到U，成績又好的話，選科的範圍是闊了。如果本來入到U，但因為讀M1M2佔用太多溫習時間，導致入不了，則是得不償失。
M1M2有多大用處？
不讀M1M2，也有很多好科目選，比如說法律、醫學。另外，商學院、理學院、文學院、社會科學院…也有很多很多科目可以選。
論日常生活、做事，M1M2幾乎完全沒有用。小弟雖然學過M1M2深度的微積分、代數、統計學，但記憶中離開學校後就已經從未用過。
作者: 雙儿 時間: 11-7-24 10:16 標題: 回覆 Cow, BookloverJ 的文章
Dear fellows,
It is not that obvious if you look at the statistics. From 2010 HKCEE exam report, 87.4% of candidates passed additional maths while 75.2% passes maths. I do understand there are arts students for maths paper, but I remain to be convinced that a subject with 87.4% passing rate is the more difficult paper, if we are referring to the difficulty of getting a good grade.
I am far away from my exam days. My opinion is based on discussion with my daughter when she took HKCEE.
BookloverJ, obviously it is not just one question happening to be more difficult. I was told AS, GS (we called them AP, GP in our days), linear programming can be quite tricky and time consuming as well. Go to a book store and pick up a reference book (either DSE or HKCEE if you can still find one) for the questions. Anyway, my point is not on the absolute difficulty of the questions. "因為以前會考Maths真very very easy, 好多同學一半時間唔使就做哂. "--Did they all get A with half of the allotted time to check their work?
I referred to the A* percentage of IGCSE is just to illuminate what I mean by "easy", i.e. the degree of easiness to get a good grade. Of course, it is totally up to you to consider a paper with 4% candidates getting an A as "very, very easy". You can see the A% of other subjects in HKEAA exam report as well. Google it please.
[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-7-24 10:30 編輯 ]
作者: 雙儿 時間: 11-7-24 10:23
原帖由 eviepa 於 11-7-24 09:48 發表
如果孩子是最強的十個八個巴仙學生，平日非常勤力，喜歡接受挑戰，選修M1M2自然如虎添翼。
但不幸地，你們的子女是border line case的三四十個巴仙的能力，能否入U，端視乎未來幾年的造化的話，選不選修M1M2就要想清楚了。
小弟 ...
I agreed with all you said except the last paragraph. It really depends on what your job is but statistics is everywhere and one should learn some, M1 or not. 我呢個女人仔上呢吹水都時不時要用到啲 statistics 啦。
作者: cow 時間: 11-7-24 12:22
雙儿,
Don't use statisitc to fool yourself.
For those people taking A.Maths and Maths. Properly they will get the follwing grades:
Maths (A), A.Maths (A-D)
Maths (B), A.Mahts (A-D)
Maths (C), A.Mahts (D-fail)
Mahts (D), A.Mahts (E-fail)
In my old day, over 3/4 of my classmates got A in Maths but less than 1/2 got A in A.Maths. Over 90% got A-B in Maths but the figure is much lower in A.Maths. All got A-C in Maths but not all could get A-C in A.Maths.
If you want to use statistic:
Grade A in GCE AS English (10%)
Grade 7 in IBDP A1 SL English (~4%)
Grade A in HKU UE (less than 2%)
Don't tell me that HKU UE is the most difficult. In fact, IBDP A1 English is the most difficult.
You can also compare the IGCSE O Level English as 1st language with the one for 2nd language.
作者: 雙儿 時間: 11-7-24 12:55
原帖由 cow 於 11-7-24 12:22 發表
If you want to use statistic:
Grade A in GCE AS English (10%)
Grade 7 in IBDP A1 SL English (~4%)
Grade A in HKU UE (less than 2%)
Don't tell me that HKU UE is the most difficult. In fact, IBDP A1 English is the most difficult.
If the profiles of the candidates taking IB and UE are similar and if Grade 7 in IB equals to grade A in UE(I'm not sure about both), I can tell you flatly UE is more difficult with a lower A%.
作者: 雙儿 時間: 11-7-24 13:00
原帖由 cow 於 11-7-24 12:22 發表
Maths (C), A.Mahts (D-fail)
Mahts (D), A.Mahts (E-fail)
If your memory does not fail you, your classmates in this category are absolute lazy bones. Anyone with some preparation can pass additional maths (87% passing rate, omg). A totally unprepared student can tackle maths reasonably well as a majority of the questions in maths paper are pretty much basic as you guys said and covers materials of the whole secondary school. The qualities required for an A in additional maths are slightly different from those for an A in maths. And sure I can tell you numerous examples with their additional maths grader higher than maths grades.
Just use another example, the topics of AP Calculus or GCE A level maths are more advanced than HKCEE additional maths. They are easier in the sense that over 20% of the candidates get the top grade.
By the way, you need some more work to reconcile the figures of your class with the overall statistics.
And Cow, pay attention to the words I used. I used the word "arguably", not "categorily", in my first post. Mind the difference. I usually choose my words carefully even though they look casual sometimes. My original point was just that maths was not an "easy" paper as normally thought.
[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-7-24 13:19 編輯 ]
作者: snowbell 時間: 11-7-24 13:58 標題: 回復 6# eviepa 的帖子
雖然大學某些科沒有指定要M1,M2, 但interview時有M1,M2又考得好, 會不會優勝些?
我自己沒有修A.Maths, 但問理科的人就話易, 問文科的人就話難. 難同易真係見仁見智, 識既就話易, 唔識就話難.
但起碼知文憑試Maths, 最高境界是Core , M2取盡分.
用最高的point, 再量力而為, 退而求其次, 由學校編排,
所以現在F.1到F.3都唔易讀, 尤其F.3, 要讀書的學生真係唔好hea.
[ 本帖最後由 snowbell 於 11-7-24 14:13 編輯 ]
作者: cow 時間: 11-7-24 17:07
雙儿,
You have to admit that you have given wrong analysis to your daughter if you have told her that studying A.Maths is easier to get a good grade than studying Maths.
Obviously you are not the one who took both Maths and A.Maths in HKCEE. Ask someone who has taken both subjects and you will get an answer. Actually you have got your answer already - the profiles of the candidates taking A.Maths and Maths are different.
By the way all of my classmates passed A.Maths.
2010 HKCEE Grade A/5* percentage
English 1.2%
Literature in English 7%
Maths 3.4%
A.Maths 6.0%
2010 HKCEE Grade A-C/5*-4 percentage
English 17.3%
Literature in English 39.2%
Maths 28%
A. Maths 39%
[ 本帖最後由 cow 於 11-7-24 19:55 編輯 ]
作者: gigivinda 時間: 11-7-24 19:24
原帖由 snowbell 於 11-7-24 13:58 發表
雖然大學某些科沒有指定要M1,M2, 但interview時有M1,M2又考得好, 會不會優勝些?
...
Although there is no past experience, to a certain extent, if two persons are similar in other aspects but one has taken M1/M2 and has got a good result but the other has not taken M1/M2, I think the former will have some advantage. It is just like HKCEE, only 6 subjects are counted but if one has 10As (or even just 7As) but the other has 6As, I think the former will have advantage over the latter.
[ 本帖最後由 gigivinda 於 11-7-24 19:41 編輯 ]
作者: mio8390 時間: 11-7-24 21:26
從以前到現在，都不是每個達到最低要求者都能入選，因為不能有足夠學位滿足到所有人，這個遊戲全世界都是這個玩法。
還有是大部份學校都是中五才開始讀M1或M2，得一年半時間，追是十分困難，其它科目也十分忙，讀多科未必是好事。
原帖由 snowbell 於 11-7-23 18:30 發表
我意思是指多出的10個人，數學分底都高,可承接M1,M2的課程, 而不能選的話, 太可惜.
由小五,小六的呈分試都知遊戲規則, 但選科會直接影響學生升讀大學的選科及海外升學.
升上高中的學生, 思想上會比初中時成熟, 想發 ...
作者: snowbell 時間: 11-7-24 22:29
原帖由 mio8390 於 11-7-24 21:26 發表
從以前到現在，都不是每個達到最低要求者都能入選，因為不能有足夠學位滿足到所有人，這個遊戲全世界都是這個玩法。
還有是大部份學校都是中五才開始讀M1或M2，得一年半時間，追是十分困難，其它科目也十分忙，讀多科未必是好事。
...
囝囝的學校大半數學生要修8科，聽師兄說M1,M2由中四開始教.
作者: BookloverJ 時間: 11-7-25 08:57
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作者: ANChan59 時間: 11-7-25 10:27
原帖由 snowbell 於 11-7-24 22:29 發表
囝囝的學校大半數學生要修8科，聽師兄說M1,M2由中四開始教.
For clarification only, 8 subjects - Core Maths & M1/M2 as one subject or two.
If my son stayed in NSS, he might take Chinese, English, Maths (Core + M2 = 1), LS, Chemsitry, Physics, and Economics. They considered that as 7 subjects.
作者: mio8390 時間: 11-7-25 11:01
政府規定第八科一定不可是學術科(例如是 : 音樂或體育.....等等)因為新高中學制是比以前高中深，所以政府不見意學太多科目。
M1和M2不是每間學校都是由中四開始，因為課程比較深，所以有些學校在中五時才開始M1與M2課程。
原帖由 snowbell 於 11-7-24 22:29 發表
囝囝的學校大半數學生要修8科，聽師兄說M1,M2由中四開始教.
作者: judy 時間: 11-7-25 11:02
統計好好玩：阿大和两個表哥考会考，阿大考10科，大表哥考9科，二表哥考8科，三人奪A數目相同。爺爺於是宣佈，二表哥最叻，得A率最高，大表哥次之，阿大排最尾。激死阿大。
讀文科的人，常羨慕理科奪Ａ高，10A，9A，8A差不多給理科的奪走。其實佢地忘記一樣嘢，香港地，成績好的，幾乎全選理科(幾家名女校可能除外)，再頂尖才考附加數。如果成績差的一批選理科，理科奪Ａ率肯定大降，理所當然。
講開M1，M2。我認為两科難易不在同一層次。統計一科，最深的部分，預科根本不会教，我估普通學生，用心讀一定過骨。反而M2部分，難度介乎附加數和純數之間，我估大部分学生，連入门也難，小心。
作者: cow 時間: 11-7-25 11:11
A Physicist, a Biologist, and a Statistician see two people enter an empty house, and then after some time, they see three people leave the house.
The Physicist concludes, "My initial observation must have been incorrect."
The Biologist concludes, "Clearly, the two reproduced..."
The Statistician concludes, "Well, if one more person enters the house, then there will be no-one in the house!"
作者: 雙儿 時間: 11-7-25 14:10 標題: 回覆 cow, BookloverJ 的文章
What's wrong with you two? Why do you keep focusing on the absolute difficulty of the questions despite my repeated clarification what I mean by "easy"? Everyone knows maths is less complex and less advanced than additional maths, including dumb sheung yi. You don't need to repeat that, again and again. What I need from you both is some sort of statistical proof that it is more difficult to get a good grade in additional maths, given equal ability in maths and equal preparation for the exams. What I said "arguably", it means "it can be argued". Cow's 6% A in additional maths and 3.4% A in maths is prima facie the basis that maths can be argued as more difficult. But of course we all know we have to discount the % for additional maths as the average additional maths candidate is more maths capable. How much should we discount, I don't know. I'm simply not certain which paper is more difficult. Cow, work harder, prove for us. When you want to say other people are wrong, challenge their basis, challenge their deduction, but don't just keep saying they are wrong.
What I say here is actually from my daughter as I said my exam days are long gone. Her original words are more or less like this: 附加數多數係翻抄，勤力啲做past papers 就得；數學section B題目有啲創意，難準備啲，真係對數學要有啲感覺至得。
Girls at HKCEE level are generally more hardworking, although at the top end boys perform far better than girls in additional maths (we expect that, don't we?), girls have a higher passing rate than boys in additional maths (88.9% vs 86.8% in 2010 again) This supports what she says. Moreover, the A% in maths is comparable with other major science subjects like physics, chemistry and biology; are these subjects then all "very, very easy". Mind your logic, guys. Cow, work out the problem for us, please.
Cow, your statement that all your classmates passed additional maths does not support your assertion that additional maths is the more difficult paper, does it?
[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-8-1 17:52 編輯 ]
作者: cow 時間: 11-7-25 14:36
雙儿,
You are absolutely correct that A.Maths is more (absolute) difficult does not means it's more difficult to get a good grade than Mahts. But I have told you the truth that A.Maths is also more difficult to get a good grade than Maths because most people taking A.Maths are good in Maths but almost all students take Maths.
I have told you the fact of my classmates already - 3/4 got A in Maths and less than 1/2 got A in A.Maths...all got A-C in Maths but not all could in A.Maths.
Here are the solid figures I know:
Maths (A), A.Maths(A)
Maths (A),A.Maths(C)
Maths (B), A.Maths (D)
Maths (C), A.Maths (D)
Maths (C), A. Maths (D or below)
Maths (E), A. Maths (failed)
Usually one will have higher grade in A.Maths than in Maths is:
Maths (B), A.Maths (A)
due to careless.
Plesae share your real figures if you do have. If you don't have, please do some researches.
作者: snowbell 時間: 11-7-25 15:03
原帖由 ANChan59 於 11-7-25 10:27 發表
For clarification only, 8 subjects - Core Maths & M1/M2 as one subject or two.
If my son stayed in NSS, he might take Chinese, English, Maths (Core + M2 = 1), LS, Chemsitry, Physics, and Economics. ...
我將Maths的Core和M1/M2分為兩科, 日後文憑試Core 一個分, M1/M2一個分.
作者: 雙儿 時間: 11-7-25 15:14
原帖由 cow 於 11-7-25 14:36 發表
雙儿,
You are absolutely correct that A.Maths is more (absolute) difficult does not means it's more difficult to get a good grade than Mahts. But I have told you the truth that A.Maths is also more d ...
Cow,
Work harder and don't just use your class statistics.
Actually, I've just found the proof, not very vigorous though. It should be good enough. It is in your favour. However, I'll allow you some time to work it out yourself.
作者: snowbell 時間: 11-7-25 15:15
原帖由 mio8390 於 11-7-25 11:01 發表
政府規定第八科一定不可是學術科(例如是 : 音樂或體育.....等等)因為新高中學制是比以前高中深，所以政府不見意學太多科目。
M1和M2不是每間學校都是由中四開始，因為課程比較深，所以有些學校在中五時才開始M1與M2課程。
...
文憑試的分科和教學進度間間學校都不同，所以家長了解兒女學校的安排，在選科上會好些.
考幾多科都是學校決定，我將個別計分當一科, 總共有8項分數. Maths core, M1/M2 當兩科.
作者: ANChan59 時間: 11-7-25 15:16
原帖由 snowbell 於 11-7-25 15:03 發表
我將Maths的Core和M1/M2分為兩科, 日後文憑試Core 一個分, M1/M2一個分.
Thanks, some schools will take it as two subjects.
I always refer to UCAS, as they consider core as part 1, and M1, M2 as part 2. Without M1/M2, you will only have half the tariff.
作者: cow 時間: 11-7-25 15:23
雙儿,
fyi
From school web site:
St Bonaventure College & High School
2006 HKCEE result
Passing rate of Maths and A.Maths
Class C (85.71, 26.32)
Class D (100%, 81.4%)
Hearsay:
XX敎育中心數學主任吳Sir
- 聖XX英文書院前數學教師；
- 其任敎之2010年會考班45人中, 全部學生數學科成績均獲C級或以上, 半數以上更取得A級, 而附加數學也有半數獲A級佳績
[ 本帖最後由 cow 於 11-7-25 16:37 編輯 ]
作者: mio8390 時間: 11-7-25 15:42
據我所知，政府的資料是combine Science是一科，Math + M1/M2都是一科來計，所以第八科一定是音樂；體育.....等等非學術科目，不會有超過八科的學生，也不會有十優生出現，像現時高教沒有十優生。
原帖由 snowbell 於 11-7-25 15:15 發表
文憑試的分科和教學進度間間學校都不同，所以家長了解兒女學校的安排，在選科上會好些.
考幾多科都是學校決定，我將個別計分當一科, 總共有8項分數. Maths core, M1/M2 當兩科. ...
作者: 雙儿 時間: 11-7-25 18:17
原帖由 cow 於 11-7-25 15:23 發表
2006 HKCEE result
Passing rate of Maths and A.Maths
Class C (85.71, 26.32)
Class D (100%, 81.4%)
Cow
Class C is a joke and greatly at odds with overall statistics. The boys were a bunch of lazy bones.
其任敎之2010年會考班45人中, 全部學生數學科成績均獲C級或以上, 半數以上更取得A級, 而附加數學也有半數獲A級佳績
This hardly supports your assertion as well.
Work harder. Use overall statistics. The problem is not just to deal with the fact that the additional maths students are more maths capable, but also the complication that since they are taking additional maths, naturally they are better prepared for maths as well.
I'll give me one more day.
[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-7-25 18:21 編輯 ]
作者: snowbell 時間: 11-7-25 20:40
原帖由 mio8390 於 11-7-25 15:42 發表
據我所知，政府的資料是combine Science是一科，Math + M1/M2都是一科來計，所以第八科一定是音樂；體育.....等等非學術科目，不會有超過八科的學生，也不會有十優生出現，像現時高教沒有十優生。
...
Maths 的Core, M1/M2撥為同一個核心科目, 所以當一科, 考試會將Core一份Paper, M1/M2另外一份Paper.
假設將來有個超人學生考Chinese, Eng, Math Core, Math M2, LS, Phy, Chem, Bio, French全部考到優,
這算8優定9優?
如果考Maths core + M1/M2, 比一份考試費定比兩份考試費?
作者: mio8390 時間: 11-7-25 21:17
如果他咁計combine Science都變成兩科，將會就有機會有十優生囉。
原帖由 snowbell 於 11-7-25 20:40 發表
Maths 的Core, M1/M2撥為同一個核心科目, 所以當一科, 考試會將Core一份Paper, M1/M2另外一份Paper.
假設將來有個超人學生考Chinese, Eng, Math Core, Math M2, LS, Phy, Chem, Bio, French全部考到優,
這算8優定 ...
作者: khmama524 時間: 11-7-26 15:14
hi, cow,
Please check pm.
作者: 雙儿 時間: 11-7-28 19:35 標題: 回覆 cow 的文章
Cow
本想show啲計算，証明你係啱嘅，但俾老公一睇，就睇到大錯特錯嘅地方，搞到我冇心機繼續計，但有兩點可告訴你。
你以為學生同時考additional maths 及 maths時， additional maths 會高一個grade，呢個肯定係錯嘅。用番2010數字，考到 additional maths A or B grade 嘅有3523人，比maths A grade 嘅3035人重要多，換句話說，就算non-additional maths 考生冇人 maths 考到Ａ都唔得。
2. 如果考慮另一方向，若假設考生 additional maths 及 maths 同grade，在maths 考生中扣除additional maths考生後，餘下的non-additional maths考生成績分佈是A:3.9%，A-B:11.3%，A-C:26.1%，A-D:37.8%，A-E：53.5%，又唔算高，唔可以講唔合理，特別係A-C及A-E嘅百分比絕大科目都低，如果maths明顯較易高grade，我們應看到明顯較高的百分比，事實並不如此。
可能男女分佈有明顯差異，如你列舉的男校簡直不知所謂。
[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-7-28 19:45 編輯 ]
作者: Viman 時間: 11-7-28 23:08
Hi,
我亞囝都選讀Phy + econ , 至於M1 or M2, 要F4時 ｍａｔｈｓ ok 才可在F5 選修:D
因此可以看下成績才決定...
原帖由 ZZdaphne 於 11-7-20 16:29 發表
選科已落實了, 只是怕女兒應付唔到....
會讀Phy + M1
見其他家長分享, 有點擔心已矣....
作者: cow 時間: 11-7-28 23:15
原帖由 雙儿 於 11-7-28 19:35 發表
你以為學生同時考additional maths 及 maths時， additional maths 會高一個grade，呢個肯定係錯嘅。用番2010數字，考到 additional maths A or B grade 嘅有3523人，比maths A grade 嘅3035人重要多，換句話說，就算non-additional maths 考生冇人 maths 考到Ａ都唔得。
學生同時考A.Maths及Maths, Maths唔一定高一個grade. 有D學生A.Maths有A,但Maths只有B. 對Maths好但不小心好的學生，A.Maths是比較易拿A。
但一班學生同時考A.Maths及Maths, 整體Maths拿A會比A.Maths拿A多，Maths拿A－Ｃ會比A.Maths拿A－Ｃ多。
作者: ZZdaphne 時間: 11-7-28 23:38
原帖由 Viman 於 11-7-28 23:08 發表
Hi,
我亞囝都選讀Phy + econ , 至於M1 or M2, 要F4時 ｍａｔｈｓ ok 才可在F5 選修:D
因此可以看下成績才決定...
我女間學校F.4已經選定,要開始讀啦...
你仔仔F.4選修2科,
我女3科+M1,
好驚佢唔拈....
[ 本帖最後由 ZZdaphne 於 11-7-28 23:41 編輯 ]
作者: mio8390 時間: 11-7-29 11:13
所以有學生讀到中五時要求讀少一科。
原帖由 ZZdaphne 於 11-7-28 23:38 發表
我女間學校F.4已經選定,要開始讀啦...
你仔仔F.4選修2科,
我女3科+M1,
好驚佢唔拈....mouth:" />
作者: LittleKidult 時間: 11-7-29 23:15
出左分科結果, phy, chem, bio, + M?
作者: eviepa 時間: 11-7-30 06:58
雙兒/cow：
我當年理科班的所有同學都修A Maths。他們當中，Modern Maths取A的有15人，其他的都是B或C。至於A Maths，則有幾個A，拿D、E的也有一些。這個格局不止我的一屆，前後幾屆也大概如此。數字上較支持cow的說法，A Maths無論在課程深度以及取好成績，均比Modern Maths難。
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