worthwhile to buy isf debenture?

musicien

Heard that it's gone to 5 m! Is it worthwhile?

Shrimpiggy

It is true, the debenture liquidity is an issue thus it is not a transparent as stocks or any other investment products. For those real wealth people, they just need to  donate tens of million that their kids can secure a place without fight for the debenture. For billionaires, their fame is more than enough to make many good school to pre-empt a place for their grand children without doing anything.

21Ckid

回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子

It is not easy to say whether something is worth it or not. Sometimes, precious commodities (ISF notes being the only one tradable, and with most still held by those with kids at school, supply is limited) command whatever price the buyer is willing to pay. That's why taxi licence can be sold for 7m!!!

I heard even in the heydays, not more than 2 or 3 CIS debentures were traded a year. I guess this is just not a game for people like us. With such thin trading, and i doubt if any isf notes had ever being traded at 5m, the so called market price is not very meaningful.

21Ckid

回復 HKTHK 的帖子

Oh, what a shock to those holders, facing losses in millions. The worry is, if you purchase ISF notes now for 5 million and the par value of that batch was say the earlier ones at 3m, 1.6m or even those below 1 m, if ISF does so well in future like CIS, it may do the same thing and the millions are gone. No appeal as the terms do allow the school to do so. If ISF disappoints, its market value will drop or even disappear.

So, i guess this is not really an investment per se, it is game for the really rich, those who consider 5m a spare change. If 5m is something to you, just don't buy it.

Shrimpiggy

Yes....so don't follow the flock of sheep...

HKTHK

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Hmm, I think the market doesn't share your opinion?

HKTHK

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Theoretically, it can be redeemed by the school at your purchase price.  But the risk is reduced by the gain sharing mechanism so they have less incentive to call your debenture and issue new ones.

Shrimpiggy

It's a bit distorted that pricy one must be the best one.

HKTHK

回復 21Ckid 的帖子

They recalled it at par and then will issue a new type.  Some people, think it went up to almost HK$8 mil, will face a loss.  Heard some people are refusing to send it back though.  My info was a couple months old though.  Not sure if there are any updates.

21Ckid

Does anyone know what happens to those who purchased CIS debentures for 6 or 7 million a few years ago? If they can only redeemed it to the school, what a big loss? Would the same happen to ISF one day? i.e. if it becomes equally successful.

21Ckid

I can add/clarify some of the above info:
You can buy ISF debenture in 2nd hand market by contacting club membership agencies. There are several active in HK, e.g(http://www.evergolf.com.hk/) .The current quoted price is still around $5m. I wonder if there is any transaction given the IB results and u placement for 2012 are a bit disappointing. They will handle the paper work. You still need the school to approve and re-register.

You can also fax ISF a form to be put on the waiting list. I guess they may not issue new ones until the market "catches" up.

HKTHK

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That's hardly surprising.  CIS is recalling their debentures as well.  I am still not sure what your criticisms are though.  Or have we over-debated this already?

Shrimpiggy

You can ask to confirm that the school use Clause 11 to redeem the debenture as the disapproval of the transfer from the last few years. That's why there is no more debenture tradable in the market.

HKTHK

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BTW, that is for CDNIS

HKTHK

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Unless this is a policy that they have recently implemented and that is contrary to what they state on their website, this is what I can find on their website:
[p=20, null, left]CAPITAL DEBENTURE

[p=20, null, left]Parents may purchase a Capital Debenture. No further annual capital levies are assessed for the duration of time that their child is enrolled at the school. Upon leaving the school, parents may sell their debenture. Historically, parents have sold Capital Debentures for more than the original purchase price. See Capital Debenture Conditions for more information.

http://www.cdnis.edu.hk/admissions/admission-procedures-policy/68.html

They also have a 50% gain sharing as stated in the details underneath.

Shrimpiggy, where are you getting your information?

Shrimpiggy

Hi Shadeslayer, The 265k is the option B which is non redeemable. The 375k is refundable.

shadeslayer

原帖由 Shrimpiggy 於 13-03-06 發表
Yes, there is only two kinds of debentures for GSIS (375k/250k) both are one off and not related to  ...

I think GSIS has only one debenture, $375k.

Shrimpiggy

Yes, there is only two kinds of debentures for GSIS (375k/250k) both are one off and not related to any placement priority.
Once HKIS, CIS, and CDNIS could be traded in the secondary market before but it is not possible anymore as everyone has to buy it from the schools directly. It is kinda self-regulation....

HKTHK

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And BTW, all secondary trading are NOT done at par value or price offered by the school

HKTHK

回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子

But you are comparing the ISF Capital Note with the GSIS Capital Levy which are two entirely different things
The debentures are traded in the secondary market ALL the time.  I personally know people who have purchased secondary debentures of CDNIS, CIS and ISF.  And why should they be at the offer price and not a "market" price?