RC parents and CWB Parents please verify

Pianokc

After a series of heated discussion about ESF recently, and esp RC....I am going to be VERY careful with my choice of words here, but why I risk being "fired" and "attacked" by posting here is because I am really curious, and appalled at the same time, why such standards are acceptable to so many parents.

I met up with 3 students today.
2 are from RC, and 1 from CWB.

Kid no. 1 - while waiting for lesson, she's doing her chinese homework from RC. Primary 4. A workbook, with doodling all over the cover, and in the FIRST page, was today's homework.

There was a title, and for someone like me, grew up overseas, with little chinese writing education, yet I can read still quite a bit since moving to HK, improved alot.... even I, can see how many mistakes there were in the paragraph.

So I asked her, why is this paragraph with so many mistakes? (A little background about this girl.... she's exceptionally advanced for her chinese writing and reading because she recently immigrated from Taiwan, if not very advanced, it is at least up to the expected standards of her age)....
she said, "Yes, I asked the teacher the same thing. The teacher said, it's right."

We are looking at missing strokes, missing parts to some basic chinese characters, and in each sentence, she left boxes blank. I asked her why is it blank, she said, because I don't know how to write it. I said, I thought you copied it from the board, she said, yes, but I don't know how to write the words she is writing, and it's time to go.
So I said, what are you doing with this homework, she said, I have to read it.

I asked her whether she let her mom see this, she said, yes, mommy also asked why the words are all wrong. What we figured out finally was.... the teacher is from China, and she's teaching in both traditional and simplified at the same time.  I can see she's mainly teaching in traditional, but some words, are in simplified.

Then my student said, we stopped chinese lessons last week.... many times. I asked her, how come? She said, "I don't know." Then I said, "so instead of chinese , what did your teacher do? She said just some english."

Maybe there is a good reason for it, but to my student, she just thinks they get chinese lessons whenever the teacher wants to, and also, the chinese homework since Sept, is completely nonsense.

2) Kid no. 2- also from RC, primary 3 girl.
This one says she gets chinese lesson everyday, but very short, sometimes 15 minutes, sometimes longer, sometimes only 5 minutes.
Now, some might think, maybe the kid doesn't know her "time" length wise, but nevertheless, from her lips, I understand she doesn't get the SAME methodical organized chinese lessons regularly.

She also wrote to me the chinese characters that she learned, and knows... she said they have to write paragraphs..... yet the chinese characters she learns are what other students learn, but they are 2 years younger). Very simple chinese characters.

3)Kid 3- CWB student:

Primary 1(grade 1)..... I asked him to write the letter names we use in Music. He can't even write beyond CDEF...... GABC is a huge challenge.
Letters B is written backwards sometimes.
Cannot write counting properly 1-2-3-4.
Cannot write his own chinese name.
The most unbelievable homework he told me one time was :I have to watch TV for half an hour with my mom.

Now I thought, it may be that it is the fact that they don't PUSH kids in ESF, however, I think it's a bit too far off by NOT keeping the kids up to standard and skills that they should know and have by certain age.

Or it's my wrong expectations? That a 5 year old should be able to write the alphabet? and count 1-10, and write his own name properly?

This is NOT made up. This is what I witnessed personally today.

Please tell me, is this what is acceptable to many ESF parents?

I am writing this with NO intention of causing arguments, I really really want to know whether I am being overly demanding, or this is the norm, and parents of ESF students accepts this.

Thanks, NO firing at me please. Just want to get some insight from ESF "fans" parents.

Pianokc

DELETED.

DELETED

[ 本帖最後由 Pianokc 於 09-12-6 01:14 編輯 ]

Pianokc

This is the last clarification I am going to write. no matter I am trying to ask a question or say something, it is treated as rumour. If I knew the answer, I wouldn't post this question.

I repeat. I am not trying to spread rumours, and my opinion about this certain school is never based on ONE student's feedback.

I have learned much about esf parents, it shows how united you all are, thank you for showing me your powers.

I give up. Will seek info definitely elsewhere.

Hysterical, kid no.1 isn't delusional, neither is the mother or helper. This example is just yesterday's students. She is in p4.

Maybe she isn't really going to rc. Thanks.
If I cant write about things based on own experience, then I have no idea how.

[ 本帖最後由 Pianokc 於 09-12-5 14:55 編輯 ]

Pianokc

See, say anything possibly critical or negative about rc, it's a rumour. Non esf parent shouldnt speak.

Very clear now. Sorry !

原帖由 hysterical 於 09-12-5 14:04 發表
Regarding the Chinese lessons at RC, there is 40 mins of Chinese daily. Occasionally, Chinese lesson maybe cancelled for teachers' meeting but this is only on occasion.

If kid no. 1 is using primary  ...

Pianokc

Yeung2212,

Thank you for your reply. well as I said, I am not going to ask or comment about ESF, or RC anymore as you can see, if you say anything negative (even as a question), you will get "fired" at.

But others who are not ESF parent can speak positive things about ESF. Negative things, then they will say you are NOT and ESF parent therefore you have no right to speak, or you should go find out yourself, or I am spreading rumours.

I just wanted to understand more because it affects my teaching to these students who are receiving such education.

No writing is ok, well, then I guess I have to stop notespeller games or exercises with the ESF kids that are under P3.
Then, they don't have to sit long time either, and then exactly, my RC kids (more than 4 right now...) says they play all the time.....

You are special, you are a RC parent, and you see the same thing I saw.... thank you for speaking up.

BTW, I didn't say the Chinese Teacher is teaching simultaneously Traditional and simplified, according to the student, it seems like the teacher is from China, and she writes without noticing sometimes that she wrote some words in Simplified.....

My P4 student also said she doesn't have a textbook, because I asked her for her textbook to see..... she said she doesn't have one.

Yeung2212, I better stop, I have to PM you.

原帖由 yeung2212 於 09-12-6 00:27 發表
Hi Pianokc
Quote : "We are looking at missing strokes, missing parts to some basic chinese characters, and in each sentence, she left boxes blank. I asked her why is it blank, she said, because I don' ...

Pianokc

Brilliant kids are brilliant no matter where they go, however, if you send them to better schools, and give them more, they will excel more.

Your nephew is brilliant, but it doesn't mean it's entirely because of ESF's system.

Am sure every school has their scholars, with the number of students all under the ESF system, they better have some brilliant graduates in their statistics.

This has NOTHING to do with what I was asking.

原帖由 chingyu 於 09-12-5 19:42 發表
Exactly.  I am not a ESF parent too.  I also recognise some brilliant graduates from ESF or Yew Chung too.  As per their parents, the school doesn't push the students too hard when they were small.  M ...

[ 本帖最後由 Pianokc 於 09-12-6 01:18 編輯 ]

Pianokc

Nothing illogical except how you can derive all this?

My whole point isn't about the school, so one student doesn't make the school into ANYTHING.

My point in posting and in other posts about RC were simply to find out, what are parents' standards and expectations nowadays in their child's education. I see many ESF and RC parents in here, very happy, etc..... yet, for myself, as a parent, and a piano teacher, I would question some of these "problems" and "inconsistencies".

That's why I asked. It's NOTHING to do with whether RC is a good school or not because of one or two students.....

I have no idea where this so called " conclusion" was derived.

Ok, maybe I should have wrote "School A" .... instead of RC... then maybe I would have gotten more objective replies.

So, now I know, there are parents who don't expect or doesn't bother them that their kid don't know letters, and numbers and can't write properly at P1.  

Chinese lessons- ok, so maybe there is ONE teacher in there who doesn't seem to know what she's doing ?

It's like a bad employee in a company doesn't make the whole company bad. But if there is such issues arising, wouldn't one think and wonder, something wrong up there with the management ?

Conclusion (since you all want one).

RC isn't a bad school. But if I was a parent of RC student, I would keep my eyes open and stay really close to what my kid is being taught and doing in there.

I deal with students from ESF daily so it affects my teaching and methods and expecations at a daily basis.

I would love to hear from the parents of the higher grades, it seems like everyone who is firing at me here are from kindy, or Grade 1 mostly. Yes, most parents are happy at these grades.

原帖由 almom 於 09-12-6 09:56 發表



Wanted to PM you but somehow it did not go through.
I think the discussion is getting very illogical.
If there is an incompetent student "A", the school is bad.
If there is a brilliant student "B", ...

[ 本帖最後由 Pianokc 於 09-12-6 10:44 編輯 ]

Pianokc

Posted at the same time.

Almom, talk about extreme, re-read your reply.

Don't need or want any parent to ADMIT or AGREE anything. Did I ask "DO YOU THINK RC IS A BAD SCHOOL?"

Stop being so defensive. Great you are happy with your kids at RC or ESF.

All schools have problems, and strengths and weaknesses. But is it fair to say, that some are more serious and of concern than others?

原帖由 almom 於 09-12-6 10:32 發表


What exactly were you asking?
You quoted 2 examples of RC students, 1 example of CWBS student and asked parents views.
Of course, I am sure your will say that you have another dozens of examples too ...

[ 本帖最後由 Pianokc 於 09-12-6 10:48 編輯 ]

Pianokc

Yes, almom, agreeeeeee I feel exactly the same.

There seem to be no discussion ever.

WYmom, yes appreciate your input, but as I said, I am just trying to find out more, seems like it was wrong thing to do from the start.

No, I won't give up on my ESF students, but I definitely will have different and regroup my standards and expectations with the students and parents.

Thanks for this crazy but eye opening thread.

You thought you would get into trouble almom, no, I shouldn't have ever bothered posting this.

Pianokc

thankful,

"It may not be a bad idea afterall.  If you see problems with your students, perhaps you should just talk to their parents directly. "

I do talk to parents, and all they say is yes, that's the way the school teaches, or my kid doesn't have that, or doesn't need to do this and that at school..... so hence I thought the purpose of a "forum" is for this, get more information from parents that is OUTSIDE my network.

So your point is, if I am saying anything "negative" or critical about a school, then don't post it here in a forum.

Ok, I think we should add this rule to the regulations for this forum.

I am happy at KCIS, but not meaning there are no problems. KCIS is not telling me kids to memorize .... the reason I switched my kids from traditional school is exactly what you said, my daughter is very creative, I didn't like it when her old school TELLS her HOW to draw a bird during a test, it's wrong if the bird looks different from the school's designated one !

Whether anyone understands or believe this, I have no intention of bad mouthing RC or ESF, it was genuinely a question and observation that I had that wanted more info and replies other than my student's parents can give me.

However, it is concluded that one cannot comment negatively about any ESF school in this forum.

Someone warned me about that before, should have listened.

I do appreciate what you said Thankful, it's very well said.

原帖由 thankful 於 09-12-6 12:39 發表
***I shouldn't have ever bothered posting this***

It may not be a bad idea afterall.  If you see problems with your students, perhaps you should just talk to their parents directly.

I assume you ar ...

Pianokc

Nintendo,

Yes, I know that.
But thankful doesn't say anything neg about ESF, hence it's ok.

It's fine, the non-ESF fans parents already PM me, that's the way we are going to communicate to avoid any fire hazards if we want to talk about ESF, but if I have anything positive to say about ESF, I will definitely post it.

Thanks all !

原帖由 nintendo 於 09-12-6 21:21 發表
pianokc,
thankful is not an ESF parent.
That's all I want to say.

[ 本帖最後由 Pianokc 於 09-12-6 22:12 編輯 ]

Pianokc

Well said again thankful.
However, schools do change don't you think? Principals change, teachers come and go, curriculum changes, books changes, and it's up to parents, and students to be aware and notice and speak up when things are not as they should be or used to be.

Making mistakes is tolerable and forgiveable, but teaching children WRONG things in my opinion is not acceptable. Esp when it's more than ONE time. This isn't about priorities, this is about education.

I believe a good parent is one that chooses what is best for their child, and a good parent is definitely one that keeping updated.

Being defensive about any criticisms or negative comments about ESF school is so infamous on this forum it doesn't need ME to reiterate. Even when a fellow parent of RC verifies what I observed is not a rumour, you all fail to acknowledge, and still continue to criticize my original post.

Kid 1 's mom is very concerned and mad actually. She will definitely try to find out what's going on.

原帖由 thankful 於 09-12-6 22:47 發表
I try not to say anything negative about any school (be it ESF or any other school).  I believe every school has its own problems.  I also believe every parent has his own priority and reasons why he  ...

[ 本帖最後由 Pianokc 於 09-12-7 00:00 編輯 ]

Pianokc

Me too, ooray....

one eye open and one eye shut for such reports about RC..... very interesting. Yes, GOOD LUCK to those parents.

Like it wouldn't be possible to actually say, "REALLY? this is very strange.... definitely needs to look into this problem...." it's not common to see this in RC or no, our programme isn't like that....  

instead of "you are just sitting there spreading rumours! being illogical....blah blah blah...

Don't worry, it's Monday again, no more time for me to play this game anymore.  Good luck !

原帖由 oooray 於 09-12-6 22:35 發表

Yes. i do agree with u but it seems to be an endless "performance"; and we are just a pack of hyenas when criticizing those distorted theories and the only "pre-set" conclusion is u are just a pack o ...

[ 本帖最後由 Pianokc 於 09-12-6 23:56 編輯 ]