IB students to US colleges

acdad

IB students to US colleges

Recently we are planning when we should send my daughter to US for her college education. We are targeting 2 years community colleges in California.  We talked with 2 overseas education consultants and it seems to us that their knowledge about this topic is quite limited.

As far as we know,
1.  IB students would  get a MYP certificate after their year 11 with some reqt fulfilled.
2.  Most community colleges in CA would normally accept students who completed their secondary (Form 5).
3.  The UC system would grant certain transfer credits for IB diploma (30 credits) and certificate (8 credits)  holders.

My question is: Would colleges in US consider MYP certificates equivalent to  the completion of secondary education (F5)  in HK?

Can anyone share exp and info on this topic.

Thanks.

[ 本帖最後由 acdad 於 10-10-26 21:08 編輯 ]

acdad

JTmom,

Thanks but studying in UK is never an option to us due to various reasons.

BTW, my daughter  is an US citizen. It would make more sense  to have her tertiary education in US.:D

JTmom

If your goal is to shorten the total years of studying, you may not need to skip the IBDP. There is a 2-year university in the UK which may be an option for you. Check out the below link.
From a cost cutting perspective, it is cheaper to  cut a year in overseas university than a year in local secondary school.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/university-challenge-does-a-twoyear-degree-make-more-economic-sense-2037887.html

But at the end of the day, it's what your daughter feels like to do with her life that matters.
b.rgds,

原帖由 acdad 於 10-11-1 12:21 發表
Hey, take it easy!

I have no problem with the school.

We are discussing alternative paths and exit plan which can provide flexiblity for other IB parents as well.

I may not be the only o ...

acdad

Hey, take it easy!

I have no problem with the school.

We are discussing alternative paths and exit plan which can provide flexiblity for other IB parents as well.

I may not be the only one who would  benefit from whatever being discussed in here and  I don't think changing school is the only action we have to take.

Would U mind telling us which school and programme your child is taking ? I believe he/she must not be taking IB MYP, right?

nintendo

原帖由 acdad 於 10-10-26 02:01 發表
Sorry but I still could not persuade myself  why I need to add 1 or 2 years in  each IB programme to compensate the 1  year in kinder.  

First, no one is adding any extra years to a program. Different programs are different.

Second, you do not need to persuade yourself to believe in anything. Take action and find another school.

BTW, which school is your children in? Are you having any issues with the school?

acdad

Hi tamm and Yaumum,

Thanks for your sharing.

I am not sure if  other well known university system would grant credits to IB DP candidates but I did write that in my first post that the UC  (University of California) system does grant credits for IB DP and MYP cert. candidates. Since Us in CA are my targets and the size of the UC system is representable enough, I think we can use that as a good reference .

Please find the link here

http://www.universityofcaliforni ... -credits/index.html

The International Baccalaureate Organization awards either a diploma or a certificate for individual IB exams. Students who complete the IB diploma with a score of 30 or above will receive 30 quarter (20 semester) units toward their UC degree. Students who receive IB certificates with scores of 5,6 or 7 on Higher Level exams will receive 8 quarter (5.3 semester) units.

The length of the pre-U education is certainly my concern but  the quality of school and family life are most important to us.

I have friends having their  kids studying in primary schools doing homework till 10-11pm everyday. I know  parents having most of their conversation with their kids on homework assignement and test preparation, taking lessons for hobbies in order to get  a certificate facilitating targeted schools admission. I can understand why they do that as that will help them getting into better schools under the 9 years free education system. That's the trade-off most parents/students  need to do in order  to stay competitive under the free education system.

Since we are lazy parents, we chose the IS system for my kids and for ourselves from the beginning. We really do not want to waste the only hours after work in coaching them the homework  

If there is an easy path, we defintely would not take the hard one

YauMum

Dear acdad,

I do agree with you.  I did study in US & I am familiar with their system but I sure different students would have different path.

As you said that most of the parents are using IB DP as a stepping stone, too.  

It may sound successful in disclosed cases; I read one report on some Bristish newspapers with very bad comments.

I have also heard of one good thing about IB DP, the students are good to adapt long essay assessment in 'U' as they start earlier than others. (another 'good' learning point 嬴在起跑點上 but I do not totally agree as Asian learn more difficult thing and earlier than the western students, so Asian also beleive Western study is earlier and can get better grade - it is from my points of view only)

Good luck to your daughter.  She is luck to have parents like you two have independent thinking.

YauMum

原帖由 acdad 於 10-10-26 21:01 發表
Hi YauMum,

Thanks for your comments. Appreciate your concern.

Actually,   my wife and I had studied in CC and transferred to a 4 years U in US before we studied in our graduate school in US.

Frank ...

tamm

To acdad:

I see your point if you are looking for a shorter route to finish school

2 year IS kinder
6 year primiary
5 year secondary

Total 13 years before going to US college.  I thought about this route too.  However, I have done some research and note that US college actually give credits to IBD students.  I cannot remember which site I was reading, Yale or Hartford.  It said that you can get 7 credits for each subject that you get a certain grade, 5 or something.  So, you can get up to 42 credits after IBD.  Of course, in the US, it is not only the number of credits that matter, but also the right subject.  Assuming that you take the right subjects, you can get upto 42 credits against your college study.  This is more than a year study assuming you take 15 semester units every term.  This will leave you about 2 1/2 year study in the US.  Given the cost of studying in the US, even for CC after taking into account the living cost, going through the IBD may not be a bad choice.

Back in my days, I think I only got 6 units for each AL subject but it already helped me shorten my study time.

acdad

Hi YauMum,

Thanks for your comments. Appreciate your concern.

Actually,   my wife and I had studied in CC and transferred to a 4 years U in US before we studied in our graduate school in US.

Frankly, we do not think we have lost  any part of our education life (except a nice and green campus)  by using this path until we saw the mission statement and learner profile in IB website.

However, the recent discussion in this forum gave me an impression that a significant number  of IB parents view the IB program as an education programme especially  for elite students only. I guess that's why some schools and  parents just join the DP program and use that as a stepping stone for Top U instead of using that as a complete education experience for their kids.

Some parents set their ultimate goal to join Top U above other things, which is quite  different from our value.

To us, having our kids  qualifying for Top U is the probable outcome, but not the ultimate goal to enroll in IB programmeS, not just the DP !

As I mentioned in another post, we would not mind to have my daughter completing  DP ,  but that's not our most preferred path.


Thanks again for your recommendation.

YauMum

acdad,

Well, if it is not the money problem, why not complete the IB DP for entering a regualr U in US.  She will have a better study life.

A lot of people are saying 2 years community college & 2 years U would have the same 'cert' but save a lot of money & time.

Does your daughter agree to your plan?


Yau Mum

p.s. I always think from the views of the kid first.

acdad

Thanks for your response.

Although there is no interesting  soccer match being broadcasted  tonight, I feel obligated to reply this one before going to bed.

Most of my friends and relatives with a U degree or Master degree did take classes in community colleges before they transferred to 4 years  universities such as UC Berkerley and Stanford, then continued getting their master degree in reputable U.

Please read  a statement I found in UC website

http://www.universityofcaliforni ... -college/index.html


"Studies prove that community college students who enter UC as juniors perform just as well academically as students who entered UC as freshmen. Their graduation rates are comparable, too. Nearly two-thirds complete a bachelor's degree within three years of entering UC"

I hope the above statement can at least correct some misconceptions on CC in US. Like any U around the world, there are good ones and bad ones.

There is no point for  us  to walk to 廣州 to watch the Asian game if we can take a train. Right?

Pardon me if I offened anyone by answering with this tone. Really sleepy....

acdad

I may have made a mistake by ignoring the kinder years in my calculation. In my kinder years,  we only had 2 years of kinder.

Since I was educated in HK for primary and secondary under the "old curriculum", I always have the below conception in my mind that

PYP year 1-6 =Primary 1-6
MYP year 7-11 =F1-F5
F5= secondary graduation
DP Year 12 and 13 = F6 and F7

Sorry but I still could not persuade myself  why I need to add 1 or 2 years in  each IB programme to compensate the 1  year in kinder.

I  think if I can finish my kinder years in 2 years , I should be considered as a kinder graduate and have  completed my kinder education, similar concept in primary, matriculation in HL F6 and  AL F6/F7,  3 years U and 4 years U graduates, 1 year vs 2 years MBA degree

Since the elite school in HK such as DBS also  starts the DP year 12 after 5 years education in their secondary, I naturally think the completion of MYP should be viewed as completion of F5 in local schools.

Even though F5 graduate may not find very good posts in local government, it is no doubt that F5 is equal to secondary graduate.

If what I understand above is wrong, I think the IBO should really create a curriculum mapping table in their website and make sure their local IB world school would have one posted in the school's  website with local curriculum map with IB curriculum  to clear the confusion.

Honestly, I would think if we can set MYP=Form 5, it would be a win-win-win-win situation for students , parents, IBO, other post secondary institution such as community colleges

students - exit point for other career and post secondary options

Parents - exit point for financial burden

IBO - given relatively  low enrollement in MYP (35 institues provide IB programmes in HK but only 5 enroll for MYP), it would become more marketable

Other post secondary education institutes - they may have more potential candidates with F5 graduate equivalent

Thanks for reading.

WYmom

If acdad thinks that MYP completion equals to Form 5, it will be the form 5 or year 11 in UK system, which equals to form 4 or grade 10 in US system.  So in either systems, students need to study 2 more years for entering U.

In ESF schools except the 2 PIS, they have GCSE at Y11 as the exit point, students can then continue to do IBD or go overseas to continue GCEAL or AP.   MYP is not a public exam, but I believe students can enter high schools in other countries at their same age group.  They won't need to study for one more year.

ANChan59

acdad

You can see so many parents here try to clarify your misunderstanding about IB. If you still insist your understanding is right, others are wrong. Sorry we can't help you further.

Can you let us know which school your kids are studying?

nintendo

I appreciate your concerns. However, I have already said that, even if we consider finishing IBDP as graduating from high school, the students are NOT doing any extra time at school. No time has been lost.

Local system: 3 + 6 + 6
ESF system: 2 + 6 + 7

Both add up to 15 years at school.

You may want to consider MYP similar to middle school or junior high school. If you are talking about leaving school after MYP, the students has only done 13 years of schooling, which is probably only equal to finishing only Form 3 to Form 4. How can we expect employers to treat junior high students the same as high school students?

I am curious which school are your children in. At my children's school, I have not heard any of the same misunderstanding from parents. Everyone understands that MYP is middle school (as you see from the name) or junior high; and IBDP is high school. And with the family background (including financial background) I guess most students would not stop schooling after MYP anyway.

It appears to me that the school have not provided enough information for you to consider BEFORE your children joined the school.

In any case, it is good that you posted your questions here. Now I see that misunderstanding of IB is so huge amongst most parents in Hong Kong.

acdad

Thanks for sharing.

I define the completion of secondary as the point which the HK government and most companies use as the entry requirement for their jobs and post -secondary education institutes use as the admission reqt , which is Form 5 in HK. For your information, most community colleges in US recognise Form 5 HKCE as the completion of secondary.

In the old curriculum, there was the Higher Level  (Form 6) which was for entering  C U. So, A-Level Form 7 was not the only curriculum under your definition.

Both of my 2 daughters study in an IS which offers thru train IB programmes. I have no problem having them finished the DP at the same school but just want to remind other parents that MYP is not recognised as secondary completion, which is confirmed by an IBO official I contacted last week.  And as I mentioned before, some parents I know think MYP = secondary completion as well.

The reason I want to discuss this topic in this forum is because I think the logic and reasoning to support  MYP is equivalent  to Form 5 is stronger than it is Form 4. And if MYP is not a leaving point under the IB system, it should share the same name of the  DP or IBO should  simply change the MYP to a 7 years programme to include the DP in it.

Creating  a programme which is not equivalent to other leaving points in other education curriculum is quite inconvenient to the parents and the students.

nintendo

I did not say MYP is the end of secondary. I only said MYP should be equal to Form 5 by the duration of the programme. And if DP = Form 5, then the duration of using IB DP to complete secondary is 13 years, 11 years under the past curriculum in HK. That's all I have said.

There are a few points I want to share.

(1) Form 5 in Hong Kong is not exactly completing of high school FOR THE PURPOSE OF ENTRANCE TO UNIVERSITY. I do not believe any universities would consider Form 5 as sufficient. So in Hong Kong, it is still Form 7 that is considered (roughly) the equivalent of completing high school (now it will be Form 6 in a couple of years because of the new 3-3-4). You may ask, why we had this Form 5 "leaving point" for HKCEE. Probably historical reasons because we used to follow what the british did. In a way, you may say that it is like junior high or middle school. Do not forget that 20 years ago not many people were able to afford to go to universities. In those days, many people even chose to leave school at Form 3. So, Form 3 was also one of the "leaving point" for students. Students that could no longer stay in school, left at either Form 3 or Form 5. However, we can never say they have already completed high school. By discussing about "high school", we mean the time that students has completed the required number of years to enter universities. So in Hong Kong, it has always been Form 7.

(2) IBDP is, if you really want to ask for the equivalent, roughly Form 7, or Grade 12 in the US and Canada. I said roughly, because there would never be exactly an equivalent. For instance, the US and Canadian curriculum is very different from the HK curriculum. As another example, the HK curriculum is so much harder than the UK curriculum, yet would never say students in Hong Kong does not have to complete Form 7 to get into British universities.

(3) I do not know how other schools are doing it. But at ESF, students starts P1 at the age of 5. Well, may be they spend more time in primary + secondary, but they spend less time in kindergarten (only 2 years). The total number of years at ESF school was actually less when compared to the old local curriculum. Now they have the new local curriculum, all students finishes school with the same number of years spent.

(4) Well, may be it is a bit confusing for parents just starting to get to know IB. But that is the usual problem have with non local curriculum. Fortunately, most western universities have very clear policies of how they rate students from other curriculum. A lot of admission information can be obtained on websites. Even if individual university have not put that up on the websites, information can be seen in their published admittance brochures or by simply emailing them and asking.

(5) Are you at a point of considering IB? Or is your child already with and IB school? I think almost all accredited IB schools are at the moment international schools and these schools usually have a good team of specialists taking care of university applications. You might want to speak with the specialist at your child's school for more accurate details.

acdad

Thanks for sharing. Very comprehensive!

JTmom

Hi there,
Not sure if you have seen the chart in the link below. It may answer your question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_United_States

Completing 11 years of education would probably not considered completing high school in the U.S. MYP students graduate at age 16 according the ibo.org. If that is true for your daughter, she would probably be considered either completed Grade 10 or Grade 11 (a stretch, I think)according to the chart in the link above. However, the chart also shows various paths to get into universities including  via the community college. Hope it brings more clarity than confusion. Best of luck in your planning.

b.rgds,

原帖由 acdad 於 10-10-17 19:37 發表
IB students to US colleges

Recently we are planning when we should send my daughter to US for her college education. We are targeting 2 years community colleges in California.  We talked with 2 overs ...