女兒中文中學的學習 — 中中不比英中差

friendlyguy

大塘小魚好，或小塘大、中魚好，好睇個人性格。

我讀的中學當年可算是很大的塘，有一個同學，中一、二祇是魚毛，中三開始發奮，時常向塘中大魚(有同級，有不同級)請教學業問題，成為小魚，中五猛車邊可回校讀中六，成為中魚。預科時更加主動和大魚一起温習，大學考入Medic，終成大魚。

他現在是很出名的大學教授，久不久就在電視見到佢，現在已經係深海龍躉，以前對佢學業上有幫助的大魚都祇是成為東星班。我相信佢如果在小塘或中塘讀書，冇比佢大的魚幫助，而家最多係青班！

我好多小魚同學，讀書唔好，但而家都有一啲成就，成為黄立鯧、石玤、紅鮪、牙點，細鱗，盲曹等，都好食幾架！

[ 本帖最後由 friendlyguy 於 11-6-1 01:42 編輯 ]

ChiChiPaPa

ANChan59,

謝謝你分享這文章。你可以再找多些研究文章看。基本上，你會發覺BFLPE是存在的，當然每項研究都有侷限，你可提出質疑。

EviePa 分享的多是寶貴的自身經驗，而我較信研究和數據，因此很多時都和他有不同的看法，今次難得在討論時不站到他的對立面。

[ 本帖最後由 ChiChiPaPa 於 11-6-1 06:55 編輯 ]

ANChan59

原帖由 ChiChiPaPa 於 11-6-1 05:22 發表
ANChan59,

謝謝你分享這文章。你可以再找多些研究文章看。基本上，你會發覺BFLPE是存在的，當然每項研究都有侷限，你可提出質疑。

EviePa 分享的多是寶貴的自身經驗，而我較信研究和數據，因此很多時都和他有不同的看法，今次 ...

ChiChiPaPa

BFLPE is a very interesting effect, I searched a few articles immediately and just shared one with other parents. I guess some parents may want to know the details of those researches and not just Prof Hau's laymanised version & examples.

The BFLPE does exist in certain conditions, I don't query about it. In most researches has the limitations and assumptions, like base on PISA, or gifted students..... Example from Prof Hau, both students are 80, if "BF" score 72 in a SP 70, the "SF" only 80 in BP 85...... BFLPE also exist????? How about realty??? How to define BF/MF/SF, BP/MP/SP???? Hau's example is too causal to explain a complicated scenario.

Of course, everyone can share his/her views here, I appreciate eviepa's sharing, but I hesitate to share on this topic. The rationale is my son came from CMI primary school, studies in EMI secondary school, I can't say EMI better than CMI, it's political incorrect/jump into conclusion to say this in BK........He is a medium size fish in a big pond in HK, may be a medium pond compared with Harrow . I can't stop other parents, base on single sample to compare CMI vs EMI and draw the conclusion as per the topic title. *** Deleted ***

Furthermore, I may share more of my view once my son finish the secondary school and get into university. It's a gentlemen agreement between my son and I, as some of his friends and parents monitor my posts.

This sub-forum is very interesting, most posters are web-pals for years or have certain characters. Always teased each other in the forum just like old friends. It's not my style yet, I may need some breakthrough.

*******************************************

Before ending, just share a conversation between my son and I in G8 after receiving the report card....

"Hey, you dropped so many ranks in the 2nd examination, how can you survive in HKDSE? How can you get into university?......."

"Dad, take it easy, I am in the middle rank of the form and good enough to get good grades in HKCEE now, no problem in HKDSE.  Which university and which program is the key....."

"Dad, do you remember I scored more than 75 in Ming Pao's HKCEE English paper when I was in P4.......... Why you worry about my English standard?"

In G9, he bounced back 50+ ranks and opened up all options for himself - pure science or mixed science streams and IB..... Happy medium to big fish in a medium pond.........

************************************

What's the reflection for me? Expectation Gaps and Expectation Management........

ANChan59

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-6-1 15:51 編輯 ]

eviepa

Of course, everyone can share his/her views here, I appreciate eviepa's sharing, but I hesitate to share on this topic. The rationale is my son came from CMI primary school, studies in EMI secondary school, I can't say EMI better than CMI, it's political incorrect/jump into conclusion to say this in BK

ANChan59,

在香港，讀英中較好幾乎是共識。主張英文中學較好沒有甚麼政治正不正確。反而以下兩類人肯定不能鼓吹母語教育：

1. 自孩子未達band 1 水平，而讀中中的。如果這類家長鼓吹母語教育，就會被人視為吃不到的葡萄是酸的。

2. 自己孩子不是讀中中的。當年採取一刀切母語時，香港很多主事高官的子女都是讀英中/國際學校，這就被很多人攻擊為講一套，做一套。

開得這個題目我就有心理準備隻身和眾人筆戰。

eviepa

我的重點不在孰多孰少，而是在小魚的不開心，大多由父母做成。有些家長，正如你之前所說的，拚命將自己的小魚擠進大堂，但升中 後則或放手不理，或罔顧現實，拚命要小魚跟大魚比較。

雙兒：

我當然同意這點。不過，大數定律，一百個大塘的小魚，就有一定數目的罔顧現實家長，就有一定數目的不開心小魚。

小魚除了在家裡還要上課。老師對大塘裡的小魚通常也以責備為主，良好的家長對此也會感到鞭長莫及。

現實有可能是這樣的，一條連在大塘都開心的小魚，轉到小塘可能更開心。

我相信，將小魚送到大塘的家長，絕大部分不是為了子女愉快學習，而是希望小魚在大塘中效法大魚的食量，變不了大魚也會變中魚。

[ 本帖最後由 eviepa 於 11-6-1 21:15 編輯 ]

ANChan59

原帖由 stccmc 於 11-6-1 20:46 發表
ANChan59

I thought your child studies in an international school, why did you mention EMI secondary and having to sit for HKDSE?

stccmc

He studies in a DSS EMI secondary school. His school has both NSS & IB streams, he picked IB finally. I said HKDSE when he was in G8(F2)..... now, he is in G10 - Pre-IB, IBDP after summer vacation.

I wrote a post to share our struggles in IB vs NSS in High school sub-forum.

ANChan59

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-6-1 21:31 編輯 ]

ChiChiPaPa

在香港讀英中好係因為在母語教學政策下,只有好學校才能以英文教學。但英中未係最好,國際學校就更好。

ChiChiPaPa

如果真的可以選擇,我要自由運用雙語學習,我不要單一的教學語言。

ANChan59

原帖由 ChiChiPaPa 於 11-6-1 21:28 發表
在香港讀英中好係因為在母語教學政策下,只有好學校才能以英文教學。但英中未係最好,國際學校就更好。

精通"兩文三語"才是最好....

ChiChiPaPa

語文只係教育的一部份。要比較實力,就係職場和大學。

ANChan59

原帖由 ChiChiPaPa 於 11-6-1 21:43 發表
語文只係教育的一部份。要比較實力,就係職場和大學。

Pls elaborate more..........

ChiChiPaPa

像eviepa選擇學科知識,而不用英語學習,不應假定這會因語文關係而影響日後在大學的競爭力。

為何不讓一部份的人成為以母語學習的科學家？為何香港要放棄不善英語的人才？為何只可有一位例外入大學的星之子？

雙儿

ChiChiPaPa and ANChan59

想早點回，但防毒軟件老說此網頁已中毒，只好冒死一試。嘩，你哋兩個好勁，隨手就引經據典，服！

睇完ANChan59引的文章，講嚟講去，即喺Eviepa傾向BFLP，我就傾向Social Comparison。我要俾自己十個叻，因為ANChan59引嘅文中嗰啲蛋頭講嘅，我差唔多講過哂。

BFLPE其實好簡單。同你兩個或Eviepa比，我就差啲唔記得自己都讀過大學，所謂self-concept梗差啲；但同嗰個邏輯錯誤百出嘅衰鬼比，我就差啲以為自己叻過李天命添。

It is said in the article that “students compared their academic achievements with students who were slightly outperforming them academically. Furthermore, these upward comparisons with selected targets were predictive of higher grades in subsequent tests.”

“In the Blanton et al. (1999) and Huguet et al. (2001) studies upward comparisons were associated with better future performance. BFLPE co-exists with the beneficial effects of selected upward comparisons on performance; but that these same selected upward comparisons do not alter the direction of the BFLPE. It seems that choosing a more able target with whom to compare may improve performance, but being in a class or school with other high-ability students may make one feel distinctly inferior about one’s abilities.”

換句話說，BFLPE 的死穴在「將來」。小塘大魚肯定當時感覺良好，但游入大海後呢？BFLPE fails to track the future performance of the big fish in small ponds. You describe small fish in big ponds as feeling inferior； I can say it as feeling humble. 正如我之前講，不要太極端比較，也就是ANChan59說的要manage孩子及自己的expectation，「群」slightly above 自己嘅friends就最好，好似我咁。

雙儿

[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-6-2 00:20 編輯 ]

ChiChiPaPa

原帖由 雙儿 於 11-6-1 23:33 發表
ChiChiPaPa and ANChan59

想早點回，但防毒軟件老說此網頁已中毒，只好冒死一試。嘩，你哋兩個好勁，隨手就引經據典，服！

睇完ANChan59引的文章，講嚟講去，即喺Eviepa傾向BFLP，我就傾向Social Comparison。我要俾自己十個叻，因為AN ...

其實游入大海後，要看BFLPE是否已令這小魚成為了大海中大魚。不是所有小塘都能產生尖子（真正的大魚），但每所學校，包括名校，學生成績差距都會在中學五年內拉闊，強者越強，弱者越弱。

ANChan59

原帖由 ChiChiPaPa 於 11-6-2 00:12 發表
其實游入大海後，要看BFLPE是否已令這小魚成為了大海中大魚。不是所有小塘都能產生尖子（真正的大魚），但每所學校，包括名校，學生成績差距都會在中學五(6)年內拉闊，強者越強，弱者越弱。 ...

I changed your 5 to 6 in NSS. The watershed may be in F3/G9, once decided your subjects for F4 and ........

雙儿

原帖由 eviepa 於 11-6-1 21:13 發表


雙兒：

我當然同意這點。不過，大數定律，一百個大塘的小魚，就有一定數目的罔顧現實家長，就有一定數目的不開心小魚。

小魚除了在家裡還要上課。老師對大塘裡的小魚通常也以責備為主，良好的家長對此也會感到鞭長莫及。

現 ...

My daughter has always been a medium fish in a big pond (she has never been in the top 25% at her school). Among her cousins, she's even a small fish. I have been trying hard to make her believe it is not a must to become a big fish. Now she is trying hard totally out of her own initiiative to become a bigger fish in a top-tier university. All the years along, she has had her groups of medium fish and sometimes big fish mates in all these big ponds.

At the end of the day, we all wish our kids to swim comfortably in the big oceans, like ChiChiPaPa said. Don't worry, Eviepa, just listen to all the parents with fish in big ponds, like Stccmc and ANChan59. As long as your kid is not exactly a small fish in a big pond, I'm sure you will be fine.

雙儿

[ 本帖最後由 雙儿 於 11-6-2 12:16 編輯 ]

ANChan59

"換句話說，BFLPE 的死穴在「將來」。小塘大魚肯定當時感覺良好，但游入大海後呢？BFLPE fails to track the future performance of the big fish in small ponds. You describe small fish in big ponds as feeling inferior； I can say it as feeling humble. 正如我之前講，不要太極端比較，也就是ANChan59說的要manage孩子及自己的expectation，「群」slightly above 自己嘅friends就最好，好似我咁。"

雙儿

It's a great summary.

The fish from my home learnt a critical concept is humble in the big pond in HK and even bigger ponds in UK & USA.

The expectation management is the summary I used to share with parents personally when their kids will get into the big pond. When all the big fishes in small ponds are transferred to the big pond, some may still big fishes (realtively), most are medium and small fishes. I still remembered we got the first report card on Parents Day, my wife looked at the results and she cried right away. How come a straight A, B-1 "Big fish" only medium results in the big pond? (The medium fish no need for any tuition, but we arranged some enrichment programs for him - EPGY....) The class master tactfully explained their standards and gauged against other schools and public examinations. Her conclusion was - he will be fine, enjoy the school and he will bounce back either F3 or F4 from track record. She is right............

You can work extremely hard for 6 years to maintain the academic leadership. You can enjoy the facilities and the liberal environment, take more ECA or dating for some years, then start to work hard for the coming public examination.

Their mentors (old fishes) always remind them to play hard and not study hard (Does fish need to study?), know more fishes and open up the exposure.... shape your career strategically, how to pick university (Ocean) locally and internationally, pros and cons of professional programs ... how to apply scholarship ... His word is word for my medium fish....

ANChan59