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查看: 6133\|回覆: 57	go 你可以笑我是何不食肉糜，但…

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	359

發表於 10-7-22 12:22 |顯示全部帖子

大女兒原來中五同班同學到我家聚會，七嘴八舌談起AL放榜的事。除却像女兒一樣已在大學讀書的十個八個外，轉到怛商莊啟程的都考得不錯，但留在原校的卻不少差強人意。這些都是意料之內，有點令人驚訝的是，相對留校升預科的，很多同學因成績未夠好而跑到外國讀書的，似乎都能找到很錯的大學。她們說UCL就已有三四個。
With a mediocre academic standing, Hong Kong students are still able to get into better universities overseas. It looks like that education planning for our children has more or less become a matter of financial planning.

你可以笑我是何不食肉糜，但這確實是一條較好走的路。

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-22 19:45 編輯 ]


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	3731

發表於 10-7-22 17:26 |顯示全部帖子

原帖由 uncleedward 於 10-7-22 12:22 發表

大女兒原來中五同班同學到我家聚會，七嘴八舌談起AL放榜的事的情形。除却像女兒一樣已在大學讀書的十個八個外，轉到怛商莊啟程的都考得不錯，但留在原校的卻不少差強人意。這些都是意料之內，有點令人驚訝的是，相對留校升 ...

uncleedward,

小兒升F.2，但都開始要為他計劃升學，如果他要往海外升學，更加要比心機賺多點錢。

有問題想請教您。我的孩子都只是平平凡凡的，我想知道一個平凡的孩子怎樣在一、兩年間變得不平凡，而獲得受歡迎的大學取錄？是他們資質高後發力強？只需用功一、兩年就能超越平凡，出類拔萃？是環境因素使他們除了用功就沒其他事幹？抑或他們依舊平凡，只是制度或其他因素令他們有優勢進入不平凡的大學？

Tommy

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	359

發表於 10-7-22 20:00 |顯示全部帖子

原帖由 wunma 於 10-7-22 15:24 發表

你女兒是拔尖入大學的, 對嗎?

我的大曳人舊校情況和你女兒一樣, 留在原校的都考得不好. 到海外留學的, 雖說能入到很好的大學, 但並不開心, 始終是要離鄉別井, 很孤獨的過生活. 值得與否, 見仁見智.

大曳人說希 ...

托賴。

Not considering the financial implications，我主張到外國唸大學。離開父母，獨立生活，是大多數國家唸大學的自然選擇。大多是初初不慣，慢慢就要媽媽催促才肯回來。而且如今有Skype、MSN，日夕相對都仲得。

以我的經驗，Other things being equal，僱主是較喜歡聘請留學生，特別是國際性公司。我太太說找女婿也要個在外國請書的，起碼較獨立，唔駛照顧番佢。

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-22 20:02 編輯 ]

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	359

發表於 10-7-22 20:55 |顯示全部帖子

原帖由 Tommy 於 10-7-22 17:26 發表

uncleedward,

小兒升F.2，但都開始要為他計劃升學，如果他要往海外升學，更加要比心機賺多點錢。

有問題想請教您。我的孩子都只是平平凡凡的，我想知道一個平凡的孩子怎樣在一、兩年間變得不平凡，而獲得受歡迎的大學取錄？ ...

I know very little about your kid other than the fact that he is a Pegasus graduate. I may not be able to offer too much help.

First, it is difficult to say whether our kids are mediocre or not. I used to think my younger daughter was mediocre.

Second, we do not necessarily need to think of our children becoming a Nobel Prize winner or a Cal Tech PhD. An academically mediocre person can make a good professional, a lawyer, an accountant, a bank manager ... you name it. Other than medicine, I really can't think of a profession which we are familiar but which denies common souls like us. Normally, leadership, people skills, perseverance, being responsible are more important qualities that contribute more to our success in our professional life.

Third, it is nothing wrong going to mediocre universities, if they match our abilities. In the film "The Blind Side", Sandra Bullock was quite happy to send her son to University of Mississippi which was also her alma mater in the film. The university is only a tier 3 university in the US. It means you do not even need SAT scores to get into the university. In Hong Kong, we are too concerned with the university rankings.

Fourth, the overseas exams tend to be easier (particularly the maths related) because only the top 2 to 3 % will get an A in HK exams but it is top 30% for overseas exams (5 for AP in the US or A for GCE). That is why we see so many HK students doing much better in those exams and subsequently going to seemingly better universities. There was an extreme case. A friend's daughter failed to go up to F7 in her school and had to repeat F6. She then took GCE A levels and then got into a local university under the early admission scheme. A word of caution, being able to get into those universities does not necessarily mean being able to do well in them. A friend of mine was ecstatic when her daughter was admitted into an Ivy League university two years ago but had to fly there a couple of months ago to bring her back.

As a parent, I guess we can only try to be there when our children needs us after they become a teenager. It is a good thing to set a slightly stretching goal for our kids. But anything beyond that, I don't know. I am a relaxed parent. Eviepa may be able to help more.

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-23 00:25 編輯 ]

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	11990

發表於 10-7-22 22:30 |顯示全部帖子

21 Jun 2010 南華早報有一篇名為“An ‘education detour’ secures University place – Pupils sent overseas to avoid HK A-levels” 的文章，很有趣。

Winnie Choi 的女兒 “With a less-than-brilliant score of 21 in the Form Five public exam in 2007, Tsoi figured that the odds of her daughter passing the HK A-levels with flying colours and gaining entry to the HKU degree course would be very low.

So she enrolled her daughter in the private Woldingham School in Surrey, England, for matriculation.  Her daughter sat the British A-levels last year, scored four As and came back to HK to apply for the university programme as an overseas Hongkongers.”  這兩年用了九十萬。

另一個例子：

Lam Tin-yan在英國考A-levels時， “I never burnt the midnight oil when I prepared for British A-levels.  For easier subjects like psychology, I did intensive revisions just 2 or 3 days before the exam and scored an A effortlessly.”

英國的高考遠比香港的容易，最重要原因是， “26.7% of British A-level exams taken last year returned A grades.  The proportion of A grades for 16 major local A-level subjects was 3.6%”

有錢人的機會遠比窮人大，真有「何不食肉糜」之嘆。

eviepa

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	732

發表於 10-7-22 22:39 |顯示全部帖子

From my own experience, sending kids to overseas rather than staying in local higher education institutions would help them to build their global social networks, and thus develop their 國際視野, which is missing in most of the local university students.

In the last 10+ years, most of the local graduate students I met focused on developing their careers and business networks mostly in Hong Kong (and China), rather than expanding it to overseas.

國際視野 and global social/business networks are very valuable assets to our kids.

原帖由 uncleedward 於 10-7-22 20:00 發表

托賴。

Not considering the financial implications，我主張到外國唸大學。離開父母，獨立生活，是大多數國家唸大學的自然選擇。大多是初初不慣，慢慢就要媽媽催促才肯回來。而且如今有Skype、MSN，日夕相對都仲得。

以 ...

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	359

發表於 10-7-23 00:05 |顯示全部帖子

原帖由 eviepa 於 10-7-22 22:30 發表
21 Jun 2010 南華早報有一篇名為“An ‘education detour’ secures University place – Pupils sent overseas to avoid HK A-levels” 的文章，很有趣。

Winnie Choi 的女兒 “With a less-than-brilliant score of ...

That's why I said education planning has more or less become a matter of financial planning.

Actually going overseas for secondary education is more expensive than for university education. And going to American private high schools is even more expensive than the case you quoted.

However, there are some less expensive ways to do it. The girl who failed to make F7 did her GCE exams in Hong Kong while she was repeating F6.
You can take GCE exams in Hong Kong and apply to local universities under the non-JUPAS route.

Going to UK universities costs around $900k to1 million for 3 years if you exclude London. The difference between this and the cost of going to local universities is around $500 to 600K for the 3 years and is still within many people's reach with a careful financial planning from the beginning. The difference will become smaller when local universities change to four years under 334.

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-23 12:56 編輯 ]

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發表於 10-7-23 00:39 |顯示全部帖子

回覆 5# uncleedward 的文章

uncleedward,

您花了更大的篇幅回答我沒有提出的問題，似乎您看穿了我的心事，知道我問題背後更多的問題。勁！全對。

無錯，平凡人都可以幹出不平凡的事，好像地震災區的義工「阿福」、官校女教師吳美蘭，甚至女導遊「阿珍」………身邊很多平凡人都有不錯的成就。您所說的心理質素、內在能力等我絕對認同是成功的關鍵因素，早年我較著重孩子這方面的發展，So far佢地都 OK，我唔太擔心佢地揾唔到食。這些能力對工作絕對有用，但對投考大學好像沒有太大的幫助。

沒有一張亮麗的入場券，揾食初期會好辛苦。我係擔心佢連入U都入唔到， eviepa話香港的入U比例只得18%，我肯定小兒現時的全港排名是18%以外，因此才看看有甚麼「捷徑」。

eviepa的蓋世武功唔係咁容易學，早年學佢陪孩子讀書，斷斷續續做了一輪，算係有少少成效，但他們總未能養成讀書的習慣。最近又學佢陪孩子講「通識」，剛才跟他們講阿富汗的問題，我講了一大堆東西，最後我自問阿富汗這個困局要幾時先可以解決？隨即我將問題反射給大仔，佢話：「Errrr…直至美國捉到拉登同埋d石油開始被開發。」答案雖然好簡單，但佢真係講中point，他的答案令我不敢看輕他的思考能力。

感謝您的分享和啟發。

Tommy

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	359

發表於 10-7-23 01:34 |顯示全部帖子

原帖由 Tommy 於 10-7-23 00:39 發表
uncleedward,

您花了更大的篇幅回答我沒有提出的問題，似乎您看穿了我的心事，知道我問題背後更多的問題。勁！全對。

無錯，平凡人都可以幹出不平凡的事，好像地震災區的義工「阿福」、官校女教師吳美蘭，甚至女導遊「阿珍」 ...

Don't worry, Tommy. As I said elsewhere, I have not seen a single high school graduate in recent years who wants to study for a degree but fails to do so. Eviepa's 18% is correct since it was the same percentage my elder daughter told me and she has a photographic memory. However, this number does not inlude students going overseas or students doing top up degrees or assos.

The important thing is to provide a condusive environment to our children. Try to keep up their academic curiosity.Surround them with books, interesting things, interesting but decent peers (if their mates mostly go to universities, do you still to worry about your children not going to university?)

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-25 09:11 編輯 ]


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	1972

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	359

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原帖由 wunma 於 10-7-23 11:38 發表

怒我孤陋, 會有人讀完中六後原校不准她升中七而讀不到中七的嗎? 成績這樣差卻又能考到GCE再循EAS入大學, 真有點匪夷所思.

的確匪夷所思，若非認識該女孩，我也不相信。據說還是學校老師教路的。少許更正，是依從non-JUPAS route，不是EAS，雖然二者十分相似。

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-23 13:20 編輯 ]

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	359

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原帖由 eviepa 於 10-7-22 22:30 發表
有錢人的機會遠比窮人大，真有「何不食肉糜」之嘆。of .

Tommy:
"小兒升F.2，但都開始要為他計劃升學，如果他要往海外升學，更加要比心機賺多點錢。"

I think Tommy's attitude is more practical.

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-23 13:01 編輯 ]

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	359

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原帖由 wunma 於 10-7-23 11:49 發表

eviepa,

現時大學的學位課程, 不少都有機會到海外交流半年, 沒錢如我等的子女, 還是有見識機會的.

Wunma

Agreed. Opportunities abound for students doing well in local universities. Some can even go to an Ivy university for a year on local HK fee, with grants and loans, special purpose loans and subsidies as well.

Most students with good A level grades have scholarships upon getting into local universities. Even for summer courses elsewhere like at Berkeley, some local universities subsidises half of the fee.

Hong Kong is still very much a rich society at the government level which is still able and willing to help out good students within its financial means.

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-23 13:18 編輯 ]

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	3731

發表於 10-7-23 14:53 |顯示全部帖子

原帖由 uncleedward 於 10-7-23 12:59 發表

Tommy:
"小兒升F.2，但都開始要為他計劃升學，如果他要往海外升學，更加要比心機賺多點錢。"

I think Tommy's attitude is more practical.

無錯！改變唔到個制度，就要改變自己去適應個制度，當自己強起來、富起來後又沒有變質的話，便可以反過來去改變制度。

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	11990

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沒有一張亮麗的入場券，揾食初期會好辛苦。我係擔心佢連入U都入唔到， eviepa話香港的入U比例只得18%，我肯定小兒現時的全港排名是18%以外，因此才看看有甚麼「捷徑」。

Tommy,

以過往經驗，我猜測孩子讀書的潛力相當準確，我太太也服了我。我現在作一中線預測，你兩位公子，如果考IB、文憑試時，如果其中一個進不了頭18%的話，我視作跌眼鏡。

讀書是長途賽跑，一時一刻的成績並不是一切。況且，香港小學至初中的評分制度根本問題多蘿蘿，只能作參考，不能視作bible。以我所知他們的情況，我樂觀。

早年學佢陪孩子讀書，斷斷續續做了一輪，算係有少少成效，但他們總未能養成讀書的習慣。最近又學佢陪孩子講「通識」，剛才跟他們講阿富汗的問題，我講了一大堆東西，最後我自問阿富汗這個困局要幾時先可以解決？隨即我將問題反射給大仔，佢話：「Errrr…直至美國捉到拉登同埋d石油開始被開發。」答案雖然好簡單，但佢真係講中point，他的答案令我不敢看輕他的思考能力。

伴讀一段時間，啟動了閱讀，已經勝過大部分學生。你有意識講通識，亦肯定有能力講得生動有趣、內容充實，又比普通學生優勝。

不過話時話，我就很享受講通識的過程，囡囡又很喜歡聽，是優質的親子活動。你會不會享受？

eviepa

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	3731

發表於 10-7-24 00:24 |顯示全部帖子

回覆 17# eviepa 的文章

eviepa,

多謝您的鼓勵，希望您的預測準確。我們會努力不令您跌眼鏡，五年好快過，五年後如有好消息，定會上來向大家報喜。行完一條崎嶇的臻美路，您回歸主流，我繼續另類，孩子現在行的路我掌握得很少，幾乎完全靠他自己去行，您都咪話唔擔心。

和孩子伴讀，我開始得比較遲，如果我日日陪著他們讀書，他們會覺得我好煩、好無聊，所以沒有勉強，就由得他們自由發揮。

最近開始同佢地講通識，嘩！真係好正，佢地聽得好有興趣，兩個仔排排坐聽我講野，何止是優質的親子活動，簡直重拾了我做爸爸的尊嚴！「講通識」使我和他們的話題多了，溝通也多了，希望日後藉此引導他們的學習興趣，作多些閱讀和知識追尋。

Tommy

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	359

發表於 10-7-25 10:07 |顯示全部帖子

今早有點時問可以用中文來寫個故事(因我中文輸入奇慢)。
去年大女兒從美國回來後，到姨母姨丈家拜訪。當我們在我的in-laws偌大的客廳(超過一千呎)談起女兒大學選科的事，觸及了錢重不重要這個老生常談的問題。大女兒對太太和姨母陳腔濫調的"錢並非萬能，但無錢則萬萬不能"和"冇錢但又想買Chanel袋，咁點"等論點自然不為所動。但想不到my brother in law就在這時說出令好辯如我也一時不知怎樣回答的論點："假設你兒女很渴望去外國讀書，但你又沒有能力負擔，你會覺得點？"我大女兒也不知該如何回應(特別是她剛剛花了我一筆錢在美國遊學了十個月之後)。當時我只有暗暗敬佩，心想my in law 本身沒有兒女，竟可想出如此觀點，商人的智慧真不可小覷。

我出身小康，也從沒有為財政問題真的煩惱過，但我知道餞真的很重要。我唸大學時爸爸就不在了。若不是他留下點錢，我們兄妹數人又怎能都安然唸完大學？其中兩個還是留學的。我感謝我爸爸。正因他的辛勤，才有我們一家安穩的生活，才有我媽媽在每個兒女大學畢業禮上的笑臉。

[ 本帖最後由 uncleedward 於 10-7-25 10:30 編輯 ]


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