删文

Tommy

Q:     What can I do if someone made an allegation that my speech / words had induced a legal review?  But, I was not informed what error / act / ordinance I had committed in my speech / words and what course of legal action is undertaken.  

Q:     What can I do if I’m worried / anxious / depressed about the allegation?

eviepa

那句中的玩拳擊指較激烈的辯論，拳拳到肉，玩泥沙指說話客套，和稀泥。男人之家不是歧視，是點出新舊版主之別。明眼人是看得出的。

Kanba,
根本不需要明眼人（特別心水清的人）都可以肯定不是歧視。

cow

原帖由 Tommy 於 11-10-18 00:18 發表
Q:     What can I do if someone made an allegation that my speech / words had induced a legal review?  But, I was not informed what error / act / ordinance I had committed in my speech / words and wha ...

You may consider to sue for defamation.

Tommy

原帖由 cow 於 11-10-18 00:30 發表

You may consider to sue for defamation.

Thanks cow, I got it.

囝囝爸

異於常理.

失望, 無言!

Kanba

eviepa, 如果寫係人都看得出，而加會被人誤會架。

cow

Tommy,

I have reviewed the definition of defamation and found that it must be a false statement of fact and therefore is not suitable for your assumed case. May consider mental abuse.

[ 本帖最後由 cow 於 11-10-18 01:28 編輯 ]

小謙伯伯

Judy 那段明明在我之後的, 怎麼現在走了上前?

Sexual Discrimination 真是一頭霧水. 那些"玩泥沙""打拳擊"是文學隱諭來的嗎? 最好能重行貼出原文, 供大家品評鑒賞, 學下野.

iantsang

After one night of rest to allow my mind to refresh, the first explanation I would feel I owe the members is that it seems many of you are quite sensitive to the situation when a member's account is being banned (w/o day limit).  I think I have not been considerate enough to sit in your shoes to look at it from a purely member angle.  I feel the situation now has been interpreted as a permanent account ban.

I do remember I have explained clearly on the status update concerning each members' status.  Except for the case of Shoeshine with a previous account ban record, the two other accounts are simply under review.  Is this because there hasn't been a day limit set for the ban so the members would see it as a permanent ban, which in that case, all the posts by certain members will be gone forever?  Since it appears to me the concerns are the loss of previous valuable comments by certain members.

In order to address the members' concern, I am willing to review my handling method and also share what has and going to happen, so we can all improve in the future communication.  However, I do not intend to enter into lengthy unnecessary discussions/ debates with members on specific arrangement.  So, please do not expect me to answer your queries one by one.

So here is what I can do for now and why:

(1) For the case of the problematic thread "本港教師質素, 失望!!!", there are at least three 超版 who has started to undergo review on this thread.  Besides the posts by motherotk which require our attention, we have also found at least one other violation by other members.  Please do understand it is a very time consuming process, in order to check against a lot of information.  It is under our current estimation that we will need more than a week to complete.  As a result of that, the ban on motherotk will be set to 14 days.  Due to our internal procedure where it is not allowed for member to use another account to continue posting during account ban, it has been suggested and concurred by at least two 超版 to also ban the account mothertk1.

Concerning how much of the comments by motherotk can be saved, may I suggest the concerned member to PM me directly to further discuss?  If the member is willing to do so, one of the possibility is we can provide a time limit for the members to revise their own posts according to the forum standard.  If he/she fails to do so, then we will have to remove all of them.  However, please be reminded this can only be done after we have finished investigating on the other violations on that particular thread.

(2) For the case of judy's account, it was banned after the review by at least three 超版.  The comment made has shown disrespect to one of the 超版 during the post.  As a result of that, it was also confirmed by these three 超版 that the account will be banned for 14 days as a penalty.  At the same time, legal advices are being seeked concerning the contents so this is why I mentioned there was a legal review before.  I was being careless to combine these two situations together so please accept my apology on that.  There are no specific allegations being made so let's also make this clear.

(3) For Shoeshine's case, actually I have limited knowledge of the background of the previous banned account.  However, we do not intend to change the policy at the moment concerning previous account which are being banned permanently.


I think this should be sufficient and there won't be further explanation on details.  All along the actions being taken so far has been a collective effort, so I didn't take any actions without seeking further comments from at least two more 超版.  However, we do not intend to invite members to provide objective inputs concerning how these rulings are being made.

Further comments regarding this will be considered as improper.  No warnings will be given and members' account will be banned immediately starting with one-day penalty, on incremental basis if the situation persists.

Finally, similar handling will be used concerning similar (not all) suspected cases of forum rules regulations, until further notice.  When 版主 notice such situations, the member's account will be banned initially for 1-3 days so to allow further review.  Normally these situation would have involved more than a single comments by a member, plus any other members replies in response to those comments being initiated.  A key reason why this is required, is to protect the completeness of the concerned posts during the review. Unfortunately there are limited functionality which can be used to achieve such purpose, so it has been chosen to done so for the time being.

kls12

原帖由 iantsang 於 11-10-18 10:03 發表
After one night of rest to allow my mind to refresh, the first explanation I would feel I owe the members is that it seems many of you are quite sensitive to the situation when a member's account is b ...

"玩泥沙"  "打拳擊" 何來不敬, 不明?

iantsang

very well stccmc.  I believe it is useful to provide example to share what constitute disrespect to 版主.

"...但現在突然出現了呢個超級板主，却只能分享。佢仲話：早知今日，何必當初。但,

我又點知edea走咗，呢度突然出了個咩超級板主呢？...'

By proper manner, anyone should be referred to by their account name, not 呢個 or 個咩.  This is exactly why we have unnecessary argument.

The 版規 is just a guideline.  There will no longer be discussions with members on how 版主 execute these rulings and how they should be interpreted.  If a member has suggestions on how to improve the regulations, anyone are welcome to provide such suggestions thru 使用意見.

小謙伯伯

原來如此， 剛巧 "呢個" 、"個咩" 正是在下時常掛在口邊的助語詞。

所謂兔死狐悲，本來有些話要說，然後就義。但 ...

看過一本二十世紀的國史畫冊，一個革命黨人被押去行刑，頸前繫著一個小機括，橫邊引出一條勒索，擎在旁邊押卒的手上。下面有文字解說，這機括就如一個機械滅聲器，防止義士於就死前引吭高喊革命無罪之類的說話。

悲乎！

[ 本帖最後由 小謙伯伯 於 11-10-19 06:38 編輯 ]

iantsang

原帖由 小謙伯伯 於 11-10-19 06:10 發表
原來如此， 剛巧 "呢個" 、"個咩" 正是在下時常掛在口邊的助語詞。

所謂兔死狐悲，本來有些話要說，然後就義。但 ...

看過一本二十世紀的國史畫冊，一個革命黨人被押去行刑，頸前繫著一個小機括，橫邊引出一條勒索，擎在旁邊押卒的手上。下面有文字解說，這機括就如一個機械滅聲器，防止義士於就死前引吭高喊革命無罪之類的說話。

悲乎！

小謙伯伯，不錯的比諭。但替當年的革命義士覺得不值，為國家及人民革命跟口舌之爭，豈可混為一談。

替您引原文，但那條線還是要被拉下。

[ 本帖最後由 iantsang 於 11-10-19 08:42 編輯 ]

edea

澄清:

我沒來, 也沒走, 教育王國的超版一直在此:
bktcc, Red2008, JoJo, Iantsang, 召藥師和我. 大家地位一樣, 沒有誰是主政. 每位都有權處理教育王國事務.

只是不想幾個超版同時發言, 造成混亂. Iantsang代表超版發言, 請大家明白.

edea

iantsang

Here's for reference of everyone on the latest status.

http://forum.edu-kingdom.com/vie ... &extra=page%3D1

Tommy

The below message is purely to answer the questions iantsang asked in the other thread.  It does not constitute any feedback or comments to any other threads or issues.

------------------------------------------

Ian,

Thanks for your questions and sharing.  However, I’m sorry to tell what you’ve done to wunma is not my advice, not even in the first place.  Last night, I suggested you may consider do a “time-out” and stick a “STOP” sign to the suspected topic is something like that:

http://forum.edu-kingdom.com/vie ... &extra=page%3D1

By doing this, the topic is suspended but still available for review.  But, what you’ve done to wunma, in the first place, is to remove the whole topic.  That’s to “kill” the topic.  For those who haven’t read wunma’s removed topic and the deleted message, you can refer to http://forum.edu-kingdom.com//vi ... page%3D1&page=3  #45 where I wholly quoted the content of wunma’s deleted message.

OK, you asked me “do you have other suggestion?”  Here’s my suggestion.  If I were you, I will do nothing to wunma’s thread and leave it open for further discussion.  

In wunma’s removed thread, she just expressed she was addicted to BK some 8 years ago and enjoyed the chatting with many old friends.  Along the years, many old friends dropped out and wunma became less addicted to BK.  What pull wunma to BK these years is merely to meet the remaining couples of “old cake”.  Now, the remaining “old cakes” have gone, so she can totally pull out.

What’s wrong with this sincere sharing?  I can’t see any part of this violate BK forum’s rules and regulations.  So, if I were you, I will do nothing with it.  After all, under the current critical moment, to leave a topic for the “old cakes” to channel their feelings and emotion is utmost necessary, in my opinion.

Wunma then wrote a “hot” message at 11:14 this morning.  Your reaction was to ban her account straight.  Maybe you’re too young to know wunma is actually one of the modest members in BK.  She never gets angry over the past 8 years.  If I were you, I would in the first place think about what made her become “hot”?  

That’s my answer and suggestion to your questions.

Tommy

csy_ma

由於有一段時間沒有看"教育廣場"，未目睹事情的經過，本來沒有甚麼發言權。然而，言論自由是我相當關注的一項，也由於未涉其中，可以較抽離地看，可否容我提供第三者角度？



不知Ian以前有沒有經常在"教育政策"蹓蹥？
我是大概四五年前遇上該版的，但在那裡經常出現的，是更資深的網友，很多，縱未曾碰面，也被視為另一種朋友了。

前陣子，教育政策版亦出現超版干預而遭各資深網友質疑事件，但當時，被消失的有些是有前科的，也有語峰尖利的。經過各網友出言討論後，超版大人卻同意對該版少作干預，較倚賴各位的自律。

所以，當該版被移至"教育講場"，之前的舊友仍以為不過是另按一個鍵吧了，仍然是日常的打聲招呼，發點文當作問候，過著古時"山高皇帝遠"的生活。

然後超版大人出現，以家長大人口吻訓示大家應防患於未然，各人從平日飲吓茶、食個包的談笑中驚呼：發生什麼事？可能因為他們對舊版太有歸屬感了，驚訝欽差大人出現時，未免也以往日的放肆對著新人，於是，犯了禁。

對於超版大人來說，讓普通一個網民坐坐監，停了一至三天，有何大不了？茱迪姐出言不遜，您給她禁言幾天（是十四天），不過是小懲大誡，立個存照。像成龍所言，中國人就是要管，此舉大概是立威？

不過，對於我們這等小民來說，近來神龍見首不見尾的茱迪姐卻是一個傳奇，就如我等因遲來而少有看她教導的較資淺網民，聽見他們談論"教育評論"高峰時盛況，莫不稱道她的一支利筆。您能否想像，對於＂教育政策＂的舊網民來說，如"升中派位"裡的khmama那種神級人物突然蒸發了，能不震撼？

就這樣，超版大人的立威，卻引起一波一波的資深網友提出疑問。從超版大人的互動，可以見到，大人也努力溝通，拆解矛盾。不過，超版大人把這懲罰化淡，演繹成＂工程進行中＂的告示，其實有些暗換概念吧？十四天禁言，仍是一個懲罰。

至於該懲罰有理沒理，超版大人說，由您們管理層自行定奪，旁人不得E牙鬆槓。好，由於亦見超版大人溝通的誠意，眾人皆唸忍字訣……因此，我趁閒時上來蹓躂時，就如某年六月N日後的天安門大街一樣，簡直一片平和，看不到半點血跡。於是，我看到兩位網友莫名其妙地消失，完全不明所以……

以您評斷sumyeema的角度，由Tommy轉述的Wunma的追緬，應屬個人情懷，並非評價，何問題之有？這您也立刻封掉，即是感到情況控制不了，縱抒發個人情懷亦有否感染性。說到底，您們想維持一個甚麼樣的秩序？

跟人論辯之前，我常喜歡引王陽明一首詩：
人人自有定盤針，萬化根源總在心，
卻笑從前顛倒見，枝枝葉葉外邊尋。

我想，作為BK管理層，定然會支持貢獻出更多時間和更多溝通的超版，這是人之常情。不過，這裡很多發聲的網友，亦花了很多時間泡在BK，只是方法不同吧了。可否，請您回到最初的起點：您願意貢獻自己的時間當超版，是為了什麼？

我其實挺欣賞BK一直以來的口號：引發正能量。我個人不大喜歡旁觀罵戰，有很多不大感興趣的爭議論題，都會避開，很少細看。不過，這次是關乎如何對待卒然臨之的不公。

廿多年前春夏之交，我是內地某大學的學生，在那次影響世界的風波之後，我感受最深的一句話，竟是：有什麼樣的國民，就有什麼樣的政府。我不想我的子女日後經歷如佛山市小社區的氣氛，所以，這次只好不能沉默。

其實，在這個虛擬平台，也是一種民主的教育和實踐。為什麼超版大人一石激起千重浪？可能，這裡的資深網民，都較有公民意識（我也是後來看PM，才得知茱迪者被封之事，此證就算超版大人下禁言令，也不足扭轉人心）。說真的，在超版大人忙着審查有問題網頁之際，仍然花這大量時間作回答，無疑具溝通誠意。
但，我反對的是：不能議論公道是非，一旦有異議，迅即封戶－－這個朕即真理的原則不應滋長，也不能容忍自己當沒事發生般，繼續不痛不癢地與人交流，妄圖激發更多正能量。

我想，這大概是BK最後一次發言，而由於出沒的時間都偏晚，大概看到的人亦不多。寫下以上文字，不過是對自己不做順民的承諾作個交代吧了。

kls12

可否將此版有關超版的言論翻譯成中文, 感謝!

Tommy

原帖由 kls12 於 11-10-22 21:40 發表
可否將此版有關超版的言論翻譯成中文, 感謝!

工程太浩大了，有無邊一段您特別想知？我或者可以幫手。