塵日君並非主教而是教主!

lochan

Trammy,

I fully support what HKPD did during the WTO period. Keep up with your good work!

I would like to say a few words on "塵日君" but not on cathoilic religion. I need to say a few words this time since I see something that I am not comfortable to a point I must say it out. Time and time again he has crossed the border and makes a lot of political statements that a person of his position should refrain from openly criticise the Gov't. I don't know if his words towards the Gov't are well thought of. If yes, he definitely has his own agenda. If not, he is being impulsive and immature! He is just not the appropriate  person to speak about democracy, just when is catholism a democratic religion ? Most religions that I came across are seldom democratic in terms of electing their spiritual leaders which is fine.

No only once he criticises the Gov't, even worse is that his words are premature, cruel, impolite, biased and arrogant.

I would urge Bishop Chan to think thrice before making bold statements in public and do not abuse the power of God delegated to him.

lochan

Like all the bosses, Bishop Chan only look at one or two things HKPD did wrong and neglect the 95% of the things that was done right.

To me I think WTO is a waste of time, but I truly salute to HKPD's performance.

judy 寫道:
天主教香港教區主教陳日君說﹕「政改方案(無論)通不通過，特區政府做過的努力，中央一定會欣賞。」對於胡錦濤讚賞特區政府妥善安排世貿會議，他說﹕「我們看到很多地方做得好差，不知胡主席看到什麼，大家都是將自己看到的講出來。」

明報新聞

lochan

SandyKL,

Well said!!!   

lochan

I think this thread has turned into a fingerpointing debate. We all have freedom to express our own thoughts, but please refrain from getting personal and stop using insulting words.

Let me conclude, there are two issues being discussed here:
1) Whether Bishop Chan said about the police is sensible or not? Or should he ever make comments at all?

2) Did HKPD perform a good job?

My view:
1) As a Bishop of H.K., he should be more careful in choosing his words. I think a lot of people say that he is blunt but honest, but I do not agree that he can use such humiliating words, only us peasants will use them. Imagine that he use these words in the church in front of the catholics?? As a civilised people, he has all the right to spell out his dislike of Hk Police just like we share the different view that he holds, but at the same time, he is teaching all his disciples to say these words without shame to anyone they dislike, is it a proper behaviour of a bishop? If yes, God bless the religion!!

Second question, did the Police perform well?
Absolutely yes! Most of you might not know what had happened when WTO was held at Seattle and Mexico!! In Seattle, one of the protesters committed suicide and the conference was disrupted. Not to say the no. of casualties and the severedness of them which was way way more serious than in HK.

Also, HK is a place where law and order has to be observed. If the Koreans are breaking the law and it is the duty of the Police to maintain the order by stopping the protesters from attacking the WTO venue. It was the Koreans who broke the law and order first. In this case, according to H.K. law, the police must and can perform his duty with refrained use of force. Compare with the police in Seattle and Mexico, the HK police was very very mild!!!!

Quoted from Minpao Weekly that many Korean protesters said the extent of violence HK Police were very mild compared to the Korea Police!

Even the protest authority, a French farmer ("Joseborf") said that compare to French police, which they usaully shoot the teargas bomb even when the protesters are a 100 meters away, HK police are much more civilised and democratic.

Same as those who had extensive protest experience in N. America, they claimed that HK police are much much milder and used much less pepper spray.

What more can you ask of the HK police, Bishop Chan?? Bishop Chan, it easier said than done, it is easy to fold your arms and make unsensible comments when you are a boss but in this case YOU ARE NOT!

Politics and Religion should not be mixed. Don't cross the border! Otherwise, you can go for elections in L.C. which I welcome you to do so, but not as a Bishop! I respect all religions even though I am not a follower of any of those. But if anyone religious leader cross the border, I will not be afraid to step up and voice my dislike.

My advice, before Bishop Chan fought for democracy in HK, he should set a good example to fight for democracy in Catholism, he should appeal to Vatican, even protest and impact Vatican and when the police in Italy uses any slightest force, call them incompotent and idiot. Otherwise, please keep your mouth relatively sealed (I try to refrain from using the word "shut")          

lochan

Just a thought come to my mind, can we forward this thread to Bishop Chan and seek his response? It is not fair just to criticise him, he shall be allowed to defend his case, right?

lochan

They even hire a special camera crew to shoot these pictures where police were being forced to use limited violence to attract sympathy of the public. Of course, the protesters who started using violence first were not shot in the camera!

小飛俠 寫道:
其實大家睇新聞唔知有無留意就是有些企响前排的韓農在示威時曾拿著一些竹枝在揮動拋出?据我做警察的朋友話我知原來竹枝上係縛有魚絲及魚釣，我相信此行為是要迫使香港警方提早用更大之權力去震壓示威者，而令到韓農在傳媒得到想有之曝光率，但警方的抑制及不斷透過中間人去與激進的韓農(講數)才不會有再更大的暴力發生。       
至於這個topic經過大家的討論相信大家心中有數，就是韓農雖慘但陳日君唔應該用[香港之恥]去形容香港警察或警隊高層。如果話韓農慘難道灣仔商户在MC6期間唔慘嗎?     

lochan

I can see MoF's choice of language is heavily influenced by Bishop Chan. We can see this as a proof of why we oppose Bishop Chan's use of language directed at the police. There's at least one victim already. I feel sorry for the words you have choosen to use. You may ask Bishop Chan to forgive you and he would say that is OK since he had used worse words and God had accepted it.

"OK, you bunch of stupid fools who acclaimed the police."

lochan

What you had written is based on your personal assumption and imagination with no solid basis and proof and should be disregarded.

But your use of foul words makes me suspect that you are another follower of Bishop Chan's new religion - Blasphemy.

fannycheungmc 寫道:
One day, the police that you said you supported very much will be the same police that will be used to beat you up when you protest against the gvernment. You will be sorry and you will think Bishop Chan has a point when he said the police was a shame to this city. remember the 4 June 1989 massacre, the pla, killed the people who used to support them. STORY TO LEARN, you stupid guys.           

lochan

Teacher Lin,

-------------------------------------------------------
3.他這樣武斷地說可恥一事，的確是沒有顧及警察的感受，因香港人的立場是香港那面，並非韓農，亦不是每個人知道wto d細則，對貧窮國家的影響，對貧民的影響，不竟，香港太幸福了.
--------------------------------------------------------
This is what we have been arguing about from the beginning! Even you admit that he does not care about the feelings about police, which was trying so hard to maintain law and order.

It is alright to sympathize the Korean farmers, but he has to watch his mouth.

It is just like a kid making excuse after excuse to cover up or rationalize his wrong doing to a point that he was brainwashed by himself and believe the excuses are the truth and that he has done nothing wrong!!

I have no interest on who he was, a good person or not. At that point of time when he insulted the police, he was wrong and I don't need to know how he did right in other things or excuses on why he did it. HE INSULTED THE POLICE. It's that simple.

I sympathize the Korean and know that WTO crap is all about. But at the same time proud of HKPD in controlling the scene to minimise potential casualties and at the same time, think that he should stand up and apologize to HKPD as a whole, not trying to divide the unity of police by apologizing only to part of them.

lochan

I feel silly about myself since I have been debating with someone like MoF. I have read a few responses by her on the "no more" thread and stopped since i think it is not worth my time.

Well, I think all of us should save some gas to warm our stomach instead of getting mad by the malicious, personal , insulting and non-sensible attack!!

For me, I rest my case.

P.S. her English standard is so-so, a lot forum memebers write better than her IMHO.