IB vs GCSE exam

almom

原文章由 NLai 於 08-5-8 23:23 發表
Student from IS normally take IB or GCSE exam,
Questions,
1) Which IS in HK take IB, which take GCSE?
2) What is different for University acceptance in HK or overseas?
3) Do you think is the trend tha most IS will go IB..

1. You can check for the complete IB school list at the official IB website. Many IS do provide IB program at diploma level. However, except the 2 new schools (RC and DC) that are through-train IB schools, other ESF schools are still running the GCSE program for Years 10 and 11 prior to the 2 years IBD program. Also, AusIS, for example, is also still preserving their own national curriculum other than providing the IBD program, for obvious national reasons. It is best to check out with individual schools.

2. Universities are looking for the best students. And good universities naturally attracts students from around the world. There is no difference of which curriculum you are studying. I guess other than the application procedures, there would be no big difference. However, each university have their own criterior in choosing students. It would be best if you check with each university for updates. As far as the curriculum is concerned, I understand that IBD has a very high standard compared to most national curriculum. The program has probably covered a partial of many first year courses/credits in university. Since the IB program is quite a new thing, many universities are still trying to work out internal guidelines for considering IBD students. Some universities have already been providing IBD graduates with a certain score advance standing and/or exemptions for certain first year courses/credits. But since each university has their own unique way of selecting students, you'd better check out with individual universities.

3. IB is getting more and more recognised and there are more and more IB schools worldwide. I am not surprised if more and more IS would provide IB program even at PYP and MYP levels as an option (IB at Diploma level is quite a mainstream now amongst IS in Hong Kong). However, many international schools here in Hong Kong have national backgrounds. For example, I believe AUSIS will continue with providing their own national curriculum.

almom

christf,
Relax! Do not overreact every time you see people praising a certain school or system. Everyone has his own reasons making his choice. I did not intend to discuss which curriculum or system is better. Some one asked about IB vs GCSE and I was merely sharing what I know. I never said that IB is better.
Education is more than the last couple of years of education. Education is more than getting a place in an university. If we are really trying to be practical, for the sake of getting into a university, parents do not have to consider IB schools. In fact, all schools in Hong Kong, including free government subsidised schools, have students entering universities.
It is true that IB is for those that are all-rounded. However, I think the whole point of putting a child in an IB school early on is to train him to be all-rounded persons. I do not know whether it is cultural reason or a local trend. Local Hong Kong parents care too much about what their child is particularly good at and would want to spend most resources in helping the child further develop in that area. However, a person cannot be only good at one area and ignore everything else. Life is a basket of everything. Being a science geek can also at the same time have interests in history. As far as I can see in my children's school, a lot if students that are particularly talented in one area can at the same time be good at other areas. Being talented and being all-rounded are simply not mutually exclusive. And the IB curriculum is giving these young talented minds a chance to perform in other not as talented areas too.
It is convenient for a person to choose to do things he is good at and avoid all other stuffs. If you think that is suitable for your child, then simply do not choose an IB schools. However, you cannot deny that there are people that are really talented/gifted in one area and at the same time willing to learn more of other things. There are those talented/gifted ones that are willing accept the challenge of doing things they are not good at, and accept the fact that they are not no.1 in those more average areas.
Further, the whole thing I like about IB is exactly that students have to take both science and humanities at all levels. And this is exactly what most American and Canadian universities are doing.
Life is short. I do not want to spend time picking on a school or system that I do not like. But I must clarify certain things you said about IB, which I think is not true. Regarding other schools or curriculum, I do not think I am in a position to comment.

almom

原文章由 christf 於 08-5-11 18:55 發表
You can study the IBD without going through the PYP & MYP, right?

Yes. In fact, you can enter universities without going through IBD. Actually, you can go to universities without the need to pay for the fees and debenture etc of international schools. Local education is free and each year, many students from local school are able to get a place in top universities.

almom

原文章由 tingtingting 於 08-5-13 16:09 發表
Some people say IB is more suitable for students strong in language.  Is that true?

It depends on which "level" you are talking about.

PYP (primary school) ..... I would say that there are most tolerence for students with less competent English skills. The classroom setup (one classroom teacher per class + shared teaching assistances + shared teaching specialists, etc) can cater for those slightly weaker in English. Some children can improve a lot after half to one year with an international school. However, if a child is unable to really catch up with the rest when before entering MYP, it is really hard for him to get good grades.

MYP (years 7 - 11) ..... I would say that students need to have good language skills. At my child's school, many subjects are not textbook subjects, ie you do not have a textbook to follow. Students need to comprehend in class and have to be able to follow what the teacher is doing/teaching. Classes are now divided into separate subjects. And, for example, the Math or Humanities teacher would not be able to have all the time to help a student with his language. There are a lot of writing tasks and students need to write things that can be understood by the teachers. You also need to be able to put your ideas in words and write them out fast. Even English classes in Year 7 are no longer merely English grammar classes or English writing skills classes. They comprise mainly appreciation of books, poems, and in-class discussions of historical and current events. MYP requires class participation. If you do not speak up in class, you get lower grades. And active contribution in class discussions requires strong English skills.

IBDP (Diploma program, ie years 12 & 13) is indeed for students strong in language. Unfortunately, all IBD schools in Hong Kong are all English schools. So that implies that Hong Kong students have no choice but to have good English skills if they want to go to an IBD school in Hong Kong.

IBD is extremely demanding and there will be no time for students to spend on learning simple language skills. Sure students will, as time goes by, be able to further polish their language skills during the 2 years with an IBD school. But they need to have really good basic language skills and study skills before entering IBD level. Generally, I would say that most international schools (even those that did not have PYP and MYP) should be able to train students up to meet the basic needs for IBD.

I would not say that those that are less good in English should not choose IB program. Just that you probably need to spend more time to quickly up-grade your English skills as soon as possible before going to IBD program. And in fact, you need good language skills at this stage no matter which program you are with.

[ 本文章最後由 almom 於 08-5-13 17:31 編輯 ]

almom

Thanks to warrrren who posted the useful links.

It is really easier for us to understand further, with the grades of each curriculum quantified.

almom

原文章由 christf 於 08-5-11 18:59 發表
The main point of discusion is that you can select a more generalised education or you can select a more
specialised "high level" teaching at the last two years of secondary school under the GCE A-le ...

How can you be so sure if you do not know!
Do not be too obsessed with the polygonal diagrams at the IBO website and presume that IB programs are exactly the equal division of subjects.
IBD courses are divided into different levels. Taking Math as an example, if a student wants to be an engineer, he probably has to take the more difficult Math. If a student is thinking of being a fashion designer, he probably only need to take the general Math. And students can choose whatever suits his future pursuit.
In any case, I personally think that even first and second year subjects at university is hardly "the real thing". I cannot see how "high level" a high school course can be.

almom

要科學化比較，就要假設其他條件都一樣。
但每間學校都有不同特色，不能就這樣比較。選擇學校，家長都會看學校地點，學校校舍，學校課程，學校宗教，學校收費。
單單說學校歷史較悠久，其實又未必是選擇學校的主要原因，亦不會是質素的保證。
單單是把主流名校之首如 DGS 和 SPCC 放在 Kingston 和 RC 之後的第三位，我相信好多主流學校家長都唔會順氣。

almom

There is no single curriculum or no single school that would meet the needs of everyone. It is good that we are living in a place where there are so many choices. Local government subsidised schools, private schools, DSS, international schools, the choices are there for you to consider. And there must be reasons why different kinds/types of schools and curriculum exist. Different types of schools and curriculum can and should co-exist in Hong Kong in a more friendly atmosphere. I agree that we need to have that school spirit and it is right to be patriotic. But I am sure we should at the same time respect other people.

Getting accreditation of PYP and MYP or not, it is up to a school. And those that did, they are merely following what the IBO want them to do for primary and secondary schools.

Of course, getting IB accreditation does not mean that a school would be the best school. In fact, I think no single parent has said that getting IB accreditation means that a school would be best for every on. I like the fact that our school has got the accreditation though, because I want to be sure that they are indeed following what the IBO expect a school to be doing.

IB is a different curriculum. It is definitely not the best curruculum because it definitely is not suitable for everyone. In fact, I do agree that IB is probably quite not as "good" as GCSE in a sense that it is much more demanding than GCSE. So the same student is less likely to get top scores with IB. Practically speaking, you are less likely to ace all subjects. Even with PYP program, you can see that the program is asking for a lot from those young children. I like IB though, because I think IB can bring out the strenghts of children. Yes, the curriculum is demanding the children are less likely to ace. However, I am perfectly happy with my children's school. My children are doing well at school, not because they are particularly smart, not because IB is the best curriculum, and also not because their school is the best. They are doing well because this combination, ie my children + IB + the school is just the right match. Parents need to be supportive and students need to be in full gear all the time. There are so many things going on and students have different chances to develop and show what they are strong in. I like the program because it work well with my children. I would not be surprised if there are other children that cannot perform as well with IB. It is like marriage. You have to be looking for the right man/woman. So you need to really try to understand what IB is, and what is expected from you and your child. If you do not like IB, just stay away from it. It is that simple. The fact that you do not like it, or your child does not fit in, does not mean that I do not like it , or my child cannot fit in.

IB has always been a hot topic. I have seen the same heat or flames regarding international schools in general from local school parents.
I am not surprised at this phenomena.
They are not the mainstream choices in Hong Kong and a lot of people are just not willing to accept the fact that there are others that do not want to follow the same "main path" they are doing. These same "others" merely want to choose what they think is suitable and they never intend to consider themselves better than those in the main stream.

Now with this in mind, may be parents with children in non-IB school would be less hostile over IB school.

almom

I think if a school is an IBD school, they should have all the resourse to support and help the students, from choosing subjects to university placements.
Why don't you go directly to the school IBD office and ask for more information? I would have presumed that a school would not update primary parents with IBD information. But if you are so keen on knowing more, ask them to keep you posted when they will hold the next IBD information session. I think you will then be able to obtain more accurate information from the school IBD coordinator.

almom

原文章由 father_ho 於 08-5-27 15:56 發表
Dear almom,

It's not always the case as I know some of the IBD school will not pass those information to their student as they don't want student too marks driven. Student should perform naturally an ...

I agree totally that students should not be totally mark driven. However, I do not agree that we have to go to the other extreme and deny the significance of exams and marks.

I would not be worried that students would be totally mark driven. Bear in mind that IB itself is not a single exam. Students cannot merely look at that exam, and ignore all other assessments and work, etc. And on the other hand, the exam is one part of what is going to contribute to their final score. Exams ARE as important as all other assessments and work.

Of course, acquiring knowledge is the ultimate goal of attending school. But exams, like assessments and projects, are some of the many chances when you can show how good you are. If we are asking our children to try hard in working on projects, I do not see why we should not ask our children to try hard with exams as well. And being well prepared is a way of trying hard and show your respect and attitude towards the ritual. I do not think that by merely looking at some past papers, it is going to drastically help raising the final score, but I do believe that by looking at past papers, a student can have a better idea of what exams look like. And this can also be something more psychological than practical.

almom

I totally understand your concern.

You have described the exact picture of the education under the local education system.

There are many reasons why the local system is "not working" (or at least, is not working as good as 40 years ago). Yes, students/parents care too much about marks or scores. In fact, they probably care ONLY about marks or scores. I do not want to go too far in discussing why this is so.  I would only say that it is probably a habit or culture that has rooted very deep in our DNA for a few thousand years.

I do not believe that there are big concerns in international schools. Western curriculum, IB or non-IB, is totally different from local curriculum. The teaching methodology, the culture, etc are also different. If you are familiar with the set-up at international schools, you will agree that students in are all curious little fellows that want and enjoy to learn. Even in secondary level, students are encouraged to be curious learners. Lots of students in international schools have sat for IBD, GCSE or IGCSE exams, etc. for many years. I am sure all of them have at some point looked at some past papers. However, we never have as huge a problem with those students regarding their attitude towards learning.

My attitude with past papers would be part of a learning process. Exams are some of the pointers of how good a person is. Exams are as important and as significant as projects. And by checking out a couple of past papers, students would at least feel psychologically more at ease.

Past papers can be good or harmful, depending on how parents are teaching their children. As a parent, I think I need to feed my children with the correct attitude of how to face exams; and I need to help them prepare for exams.

almom

原文章由 matthewdad 於 08-6-2 20:40 發表
I do not quite agreed with you.  All the good grammer schools in England and Australia use exam to qualify the standard of kids.
In Hong Kong, SiS use Singaporoan system, AIS use Australian system, G ...

What did you not agree with me?
I never said exams are not of significance.
I never said exams are not important.
In fact, I have stressed that exams in IBD are part of the program and are extremely important.

almom

原文章由 Twolovelyboys 於 08-6-3 16:56 發表
Just a couple of articles I read on the BBC website.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cambridgeshire/7088628.stm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A446357

It seems most academic are aware of the the  ...

I did not have time to go to the links. But I believe there are more than merely educational issues when we are talking about a big change in curriculum.
Honestly speaking, I also do not see why any country should give up their own national curriculum totally.