IB vs GCSE exam

NLai

Student from IS normally take IB or GCSE exam,
Questions,
1) Which IS in HK take IB, which take GCSE?
2) What is different for University acceptance in HK or overseas?
3) Do you think is the trend tha most IS will go IB..

matthewdad

University only takes good GCSE or IB result. In US, they will also consider SAT, GRE ..etc

almom

原文章由 NLai 於 08-5-8 23:23 發表
Student from IS normally take IB or GCSE exam,
Questions,
1) Which IS in HK take IB, which take GCSE?
2) What is different for University acceptance in HK or overseas?
3) Do you think is the trend tha most IS will go IB..

1. You can check for the complete IB school list at the official IB website. Many IS do provide IB program at diploma level. However, except the 2 new schools (RC and DC) that are through-train IB schools, other ESF schools are still running the GCSE program for Years 10 and 11 prior to the 2 years IBD program. Also, AusIS, for example, is also still preserving their own national curriculum other than providing the IBD program, for obvious national reasons. It is best to check out with individual schools.

2. Universities are looking for the best students. And good universities naturally attracts students from around the world. There is no difference of which curriculum you are studying. I guess other than the application procedures, there would be no big difference. However, each university have their own criterior in choosing students. It would be best if you check with each university for updates. As far as the curriculum is concerned, I understand that IBD has a very high standard compared to most national curriculum. The program has probably covered a partial of many first year courses/credits in university. Since the IB program is quite a new thing, many universities are still trying to work out internal guidelines for considering IBD students. Some universities have already been providing IBD graduates with a certain score advance standing and/or exemptions for certain first year courses/credits. But since each university has their own unique way of selecting students, you'd better check out with individual universities.

3. IB is getting more and more recognised and there are more and more IB schools worldwide. I am not surprised if more and more IS would provide IB program even at PYP and MYP levels as an option (IB at Diploma level is quite a mainstream now amongst IS in Hong Kong). However, many international schools here in Hong Kong have national backgrounds. For example, I believe AUSIS will continue with providing their own national curriculum.

NLai

Sorry, christf, in fact what is PYP, MYP? is this for US universtity?
Yes I agree, many IS say that they are doing IB, but it does not means that they are able to provide high quality of education.
Is that UK university normally take students by their marks, I check some UK secondary school take high score, but all of them doing IB, or they are not only consider score, what else they will consider?

almom

christf,
Relax! Do not overreact every time you see people praising a certain school or system. Everyone has his own reasons making his choice. I did not intend to discuss which curriculum or system is better. Some one asked about IB vs GCSE and I was merely sharing what I know. I never said that IB is better.
Education is more than the last couple of years of education. Education is more than getting a place in an university. If we are really trying to be practical, for the sake of getting into a university, parents do not have to consider IB schools. In fact, all schools in Hong Kong, including free government subsidised schools, have students entering universities.
It is true that IB is for those that are all-rounded. However, I think the whole point of putting a child in an IB school early on is to train him to be all-rounded persons. I do not know whether it is cultural reason or a local trend. Local Hong Kong parents care too much about what their child is particularly good at and would want to spend most resources in helping the child further develop in that area. However, a person cannot be only good at one area and ignore everything else. Life is a basket of everything. Being a science geek can also at the same time have interests in history. As far as I can see in my children's school, a lot if students that are particularly talented in one area can at the same time be good at other areas. Being talented and being all-rounded are simply not mutually exclusive. And the IB curriculum is giving these young talented minds a chance to perform in other not as talented areas too.
It is convenient for a person to choose to do things he is good at and avoid all other stuffs. If you think that is suitable for your child, then simply do not choose an IB schools. However, you cannot deny that there are people that are really talented/gifted in one area and at the same time willing to learn more of other things. There are those talented/gifted ones that are willing accept the challenge of doing things they are not good at, and accept the fact that they are not no.1 in those more average areas.
Further, the whole thing I like about IB is exactly that students have to take both science and humanities at all levels. And this is exactly what most American and Canadian universities are doing.
Life is short. I do not want to spend time picking on a school or system that I do not like. But I must clarify certain things you said about IB, which I think is not true. Regarding other schools or curriculum, I do not think I am in a position to comment.

warrrren

In fact, only the IBD can be useful. There is no need to apply accreditation for PYP and MYP.  It is just wasting of money and resources. Those schools which strike for PYP and MYP accreditation justbecause they want to use it as a marketing tool to attract more applicants.

By the way, an accredited IB school doesn't mean that it can offer ahigh quality of education. It only means it follows the curriculum andrules set by IBO.  Like all the local schools are accredited by EB butit doesn't mean all of them can offer a high quality of education.

I agree to the 2nd part of the statement above.  Absolutely.  The 1st part is however nothing but a generalisation of a completely biased view.  There are many ways to get things done.  Doing PYP, MYP and DP is one.

Even the IBD system has a lot of deficiencies. It only suitables for those all-round students and cannot cater for those students who have special talent in either science or humanity.  The limiation in studying at most two sciences or two humanity subjects at high level may limit the choice of applying some curriculums in some univerisities.

There is a ton of flexibility built into IB diploma grouping of subjects.  For examples, an "elective" under group 6 can be replaced by another class from group 2, 3, or 4, or computer science from Group 5.  Group 4 - experimental sciences - has quite a number of subjects in the group (such as physics, chemistry, biology, environmental systems, ecosystems & societies, design technology, etc.) and it is up to the students to choose one or two from the group.  Likewise, group 3 is a very large group.  There are subjects like philosophy, economics, business management, psychology, social anthropology, information technology in a global society, geography and history in it.  The traditional arts vs science way of differentiation is too limited for IB DP.

warrrren

By the way, like almon, I don't want to enter into a A level v IBDP debate.  Speaking for myself, I tend to think that it is too early to talk about specialised "high level" teaching at middle school level.

warrrren

My dearest Christf,

Is what I said that difficult to understand?  I said,

The 1st part is however nothing but a generalisation of a completely biased view. There are many ways to get things done. Doing PYP, MY P and DP is one."

I said that in response to your statement that

In fact, only the IBD can be useful. There is no need to apply accreditation for PYP and MYP.  It is just wasting of money and resources. Those schools which strike for PYP and MYP accreditation just because they want to use it as a marketing tool to attract more applicants.

Care to prove any of the highlighted parts to show that your statement is not a biased one?

You can study the IBD without going through the PYP & MYP, right?

Of course.  No point asking.  But, how does this begins to help prove that all those schools which strike for PYP and MYP accreditation just because they want to use it as a marketing tool?  Does it follows that PYP and MYP are not useful?Does your statement apply to those prestigious MYP schools as well?

[ 本文章最後由 warrrren 於 08-5-12 08:44 編輯 ]

warrrren

Besides, some curriculums in some universities accept at least 3 but not only 2 science subjects studying at "high level".

Sounds like you really knows it. Perfect. I always stand to be educated and love to learn something new. Care to enlighten us further and give us some examples? Which universities and which particular areas of studies do not accept what particular combination of group 3, group 4 and group 5 under IBDP? Say does Imperial requires Physics Chemistry and Biology from applicants to its Medical School?

[ 本文章最後由 warrrren 於 08-5-12 08:12 編輯 ]

matthewdad

Some comments from my experience

1. In terms of the development of kids. I think both systems are working as they have been survive for long time. In US, Canada and Australia (those english speaking countries) use other systems.
2. In term of getting into university, IB has the advantage of get in the universities in most of the countries (in US, UK, HK, ..etc).
3. 10 years ago only few "very high quality" secondary school offers IB, it is relatively easy to get in top rank university. As more and more schools offer IB, the university will also consider the standard of the school. (ie. don't try the new IB school as they have no historical record - I don't mean they are  bad but it is difficult for univerity to give a fair judgement).
4. Again it is the same for A level stream. According to my expereince, it is easier to get offers from UK universities if you are doing A-Level in those "famous" school as there are historical records. You can check the entry to Oxbriege, they will pick up kids from "famous" school in general. Of course, there are exception.eg. get "straight 10A"

Conclusions:
1. Good to follow IB scheme with good schools ONLY
2. Good to follow A Level scheme with "good" and "famous" international or local schools.
3. Personally, I don't perfer those new IB, DSS or private schools becasue there are NO HISTORICAL RECORD and it is not worth to take the RISK if you have choice.

原文章由 warrrren 於 08-5-11 23:19 發表


Sounds like you really knows it. Perfect. I always stand to be educated and love to learn something new. Care to enlighten us further and give us some examples? Which universities and which particul ...

[ 本文章最後由 matthewdad 於 08-5-12 18:04 編輯 ]

warrrren

Fair enough, matthewdad.

almom

原文章由 christf 於 08-5-11 18:55 發表
You can study the IBD without going through the PYP & MYP, right?

Yes. In fact, you can enter universities without going through IBD. Actually, you can go to universities without the need to pay for the fees and debenture etc of international schools. Local education is free and each year, many students from local school are able to get a place in top universities.

NLai

Actually, I want to ask is that any offical web site for IB exam or related website on this matter?
My daughter is going to secondary in 2009-2010, and her school is doing IB for at least 10 years.
I need to have more understanding about what she is going to do.

中天英

咦, 乜咁熱鬧呀, 講IBD v.s. GCE A-Level, 我都想發表一吓愚見。

GCE A-Level 由來已久, 香港受英國影響, 一直以來, 學制都依循英制。 本地學校如此, HKAL係 GCE A-Level 既本地版; Int'l School 亦以考GCE A-Level 居多( 當然亦有跟美國、加拿大或澳洲既課程既 IS)。

IBD 係比較新既課程, 起初主要係比D联合國人員同英、美公司駐外員工既子女讀, 無論身在何國, 都有一個統一課程同考試; 由于IBD既水準高, 近十幾年來, 好多National School 都樂于採用。

咁邊個課程好D？ 眞係好難講, 各有各好, 每個人既講法都唔同。

但係近幾年IBD既走勢好勁, 香港好多IS都轉投IBD陣營, 而家行緊既, 包括CIS, ESF, FIS, LPC, YC, 連AIS都可選擇IBD漆; 淨低重考GCE A-Level 既主要IS, 就所餘無幾( 以GSIS為主 )。

咁點解有咁既轉變？  愚見認為有幾個主因;

1)  IBD要求文理兼備, 避免學生過早專門化, 迎合國際教育既大趨勢,
2)  IBD理程嚴格,  評分唔拉curve, 質素有保證; 返之近年GCE A-Level 考倒Ａ既人, 實在太多, 嚴緊性備受質疑.
3) 近年好多最Top既IS學生, 好想入HYP等美國頂级大學, 而IBD幫助會較大

其實除左IS, 本地既學制都會改變, 棄用英制5 + 2 + 3模式, 轉用3 + 3 + 4制度; 中學只有一次公開考試, 同樣要文理兼備, 癈除文理分科( 好多人都話香港新高中文憑HKDSE, 係抄IBD既)。

warrrren

The Tariff published by UCAS not long ago may be of interest to the readers here.  See http://www.ucas.com/students/ucas_tariff/tarifftables/ for details.